London’s green recovery

Leonie Cooper: How will you ensure that London’s recovery from COVID-19 has environmental sustainability and fairness at its heart?

Sadiq Khan: A strong economic recovery and a green recovery are not mutually exclusive. As part of our plans for London’s recovery, I am committed to a Green New Deal for Londoners. This has the potential to combat the challenges of the climate emergency, ecological emergency and our pollution crisis, but it also boosts the economy whilst tackling inequalities. Social justice and environmental justice go hand in hand. Our London Recovery Board has set guiding principles to support a sustainable and fair recovery. These include promoting a fairer London that supports the most vulnerable and delivering sustainability, mitigating climate change and improving London’s resilience, but Government too must also play a part in supporting London, along with the rest of country, with a far-reaching and sustained programme that tackles the climate emergency, improves air quality and improves our green spaces, stimulates economic activity and delivers green jobs. This should involve running economic development packages through a green lens and attaching green strings to bids, channelling public spending into green energy projects, infrastructure and job creation schemes and devolving greater powers to enable cities to implement targeted local green recovery packages.

Léonie Cooper: Thank you very much, MrMayor. I just want to focus in on the green stimulus package. France has implemented a £13billion package and Germany a £36billion package. Unfortunately, I think the Government’s £3billion green stimulus package is going to put us a long way behind our neighbours in terms of decarbonisation and we are going to miss out on crucial economic opportunities in the green sectors. I am particularly concerned about the fact that we have got the leakiest buildings in Europe in this country. The £2billion Green Homes Fund is a start, but it is really small compared to other countries’ investment in retrofitting. Will you be looking at the potential for carbon savings and long-term savings on bills for Londoners if all our homes were taken up to scratch? How can we lobby the Government for this? It is absolutely crucial that we move forward, because the savings are going to outweigh the costs of such a programme, are they not?

Sadiq Khan: Absolutely, and retrofit is central to delivering a green recovery. Also this is a great way to create jobs at a time when unemployment is going to go through the roof. In answer to a question raised by JoanneMcCartney[AM], we talked about the importance of devolving skills to cities and regions. If we were in charge in skills, the skills agenda, we could be saying to the Government, “There are potentially a large number of people who are going to be unemployed. They want to be skilled up. There is an opportunity here to create jobs in the future. Give us the budget and the powers and resources” and we can create this green army which, as you said, will not just help with climate change and air quality issues, but also economic prosperity could be a green recovery. It is an opportunity missed. By the way, our partners and competitors, France and Germany, are investing huge amounts to this and in a few years’ time we will be asking the question why they are so ahead and this is the reason why.

Léonie Cooper: I could not agree more, MrMayor, because the kind of jobs that we would be talking about would range, would they not, from the more professional jobs, managing building sites, architects, surveyors, through to the more manual roles that we really need to be investing in, because we have an absolute lack of people who can do the sparkie and brickie roles on the building site, do we not?

Sadiq Khan: Absolutely. It is also about diversifying this industry. You think of the sort of modular stuff you can be doing offsite, I think of the stuff we can do in relation to the built environment, so there are huge opportunities here, but also to a better quality of life for Londoners. That is why the Government should have some imagination, but also not be scared to copy ideas that colleagues across Europe are doing, which I think is the way forward.

Léonie Cooper: Thank you very much, Mr Mayor. It is great that we are addressing this agenda and I really hope that you are able to press the Government to allow both City Hall but also housing associations to have proper access to the pots of funding that are available, because if we can only get access to the £50 million pot, that is just really not going to help the 12% of Londoners who live in fuel poverty right now.

Sadiq Khan: Hear, hear.

Léonie Cooper: Thank you, Chair.

Pandemic Preparation

Andrew Boff: Are you confident you did all you could to prepare London for a pandemic?

Sadiq Khan: London’s response to the COVID-19 pandemic has seen the best elements of partnership working in the most difficult circumstances. The response by health services, local authorities, emergency services and the public has been truly inspiring and I am sure the Assembly will join me in thanking all those involved. We have seen a temporary hospital built within weeks, over 1million pieces of personal protective equipment (PPE) delivered, London firefighters supporting the London Ambulance Service, and a huge effort through the voluntary sector and local authorities to maintain supplies of food to the most vulnerable during the lockdown.
It is important to acknowledge that the pandemic has been truly unprecedented. No one has ever seen anything like it before. In these circumstances, it is not possible to be completely prepared and many elements of the response have been totally new, but London made thorough preparations for its pandemic response. London was one of eight resilience forums to take part in Exercise Cygnus in 2016 and borough resilience forums were exercising for a pandemic as recently as late 2019. The London [Resilience Partnership] Pandemic Influenza Framework was updated in 2018 despite no new national pandemic response strategy having been published since 2011. The preparation that London puts in place to deal with emergencies is tested time and time again through exercises and also, sadly, through incidents. The extensive work undertaken by the London Resilience Forum in preparation for a no-deal Brexit proved some of the most useful preparations to deal with the response to COVID-19.
In London we prepared for all eventualities as far as we could. Sadly, this has been done with limited guidance. Many aspects of the London response have had to be set up at extremely short notice. The London SCG often heard about major policy changes from Number 10’s daily media briefings at the same time as the general public it is there to protect. This clearly made our job in London much harder.
There are always lessons to be learned by everyone involved in events like this and the London Resilience Forum has already undertaken an interim review of the first wave of the pandemic in preparation for any future waves. I would encourage the Government to take our lead and review its response strategy as a matter of urgency, too.

Andrew Boff: Thank you. Why did you not listen to the warnings in the [Lara] Goscé and [Anders] Johansson report published in 2018, which suggested a clear link between public transport use and infectious disease transmission?

Sadiq Khan: Hopefully, you will be aware that what TfL did was to respond by ensuring that we were undertaking the most enhanced cleaning regimes on public transport undertaken across the country but also learning lessons from around the world as well. The advice we had as a consequence of the work we did after the University of Bristol report shows that the enhanced cleaning we were doing was making a big difference. Also, as recently as 18March this year, the Government’s Scientific Advisory Group [for Emergencies] (SAGE) confirmed the transport measures would have a minimal impact on reducing transmission in London.

Andrew Boff: Are you saying that you did respond to that report?

Sadiq Khan: TfL always responds to reports. In fact, one of the things we did as a result of the report was not simply to enhance the cleaning regime but, in advance of lockdown, we were undertaking antibiotic cleaning on our estate. That was not undertaken anywhere else across the country. We were the first transport authority to test the longer-lasting 30-day antiviral regime, which is now being used across the country. The rest of the country is learning from London.

Andrew Boff: If that is the case, MrMayor, why on 3March did you say, “There is no risk in using the Tube or buses or other forms of public transport or going to a concert”? Why did you say that if the information had been taken into account?

Sadiq Khan: You will be aware, hopefully, that on 18March, after what I said, SAGE confirmed, “Transport measures such as restricting public transport, taxis and private hire facilities would have minimal impact on reducing transmission in London”. The reason is because the advice from the Government and its experts up until the first COBRA I attended, which was in the middle of March, was that the risk of community transmission was very low.
In fact, you will be aware that community transmission only became an issue in middle to late March. As soon as I went to the first COBRA on 15 or 16March and discovered the higher levels of transmissions, I straight away changed the advice to Londoners in advance of the Government’s lockdown measures because I was cognisant for the first time of the level of infections in London. At that stage, half of the infections were in London and, because of the good work done by Londoners, that went from a third to a quarter to a fifth and now to a sixth.

Andrew Boff: MrMayor, you are talking a lot about your response. I am talking about the preparation. Absolutely, the response was that you increased cleaning on the Underground once we knew the virus had taken hold. Why was cleaning not increased on the Underground as a result of academic information that told us that infectious disease transmission was highly likely on the Tube?

Sadiq Khan: It was. There has been increased cleaning on the Underground for some time now, professionally cleaning through the day and during the night. We also commissioned King’s College [London] to do some further work because there was some concern about particulate matter on the Underground. Some of the improvements we have made on the Underground in advance of COVID-19 are way ahead of other transport authorities not just in the country but around the world. In fact, you will be aware one of the concerns that we ascertained from further undertaking was because the Underground in London is the oldest in the world, some of the dust in our Underground is not available in other undergrounds across the world and so we are going above and beyond. It was enhanced even further at the beginning of March ahead of the Government’s lockdown.

Andrew Boff: MrMayor, Londoners will listen to your complacent responses and wonder what kind of preparation‑‑

Sadiq Khan: That is your interpretation, not mine.

Andrew Boff: ‑‑ there will be for the next public health emergency. Thank you very much.

Navin Shah: All right. I have two indications that Members want to follow up on this question. Can I bring in AssemblyMemberDrSahota first, please?

London’s Cultural and Creative Industries

Navin Shah: Even before the pandemic crisis there were concerns about the decline in some elements of the cultural sector in London. Now, the culture and creative sectors are clinging on worried for their very survival. How do you propose to bring about a revival of London’s cultural and creative industry which is facing unprecedented turmoil?

Sadiq Khan: COVID-19 has been catastrophic for London’s creative sector. Research shows that the pandemic could cost London’s creative economy up to £16.3billion this year alone, risking 151,000 jobs. Culture must play a crucial role in London’s economic and social recovery. I am pleased to see the Government has acknowledged the importance of culture with an announcement of £1.7billion. I have written to the Secretary of State urging him to ensure that this funding benefits the creative ecosystem as a whole, helping individuals as well as institutions, from grassroots organisations and creative supply chain businesses, from freelancers to artists to major venues, artists’ studios and nightclubs. It is also imperative that this funding does not amplify the inequality that already exists within the arts. I am doing everything I can to support the creative economy in London.
I have expanded my Culture at Risk office and provided £2.3million of emergency grants, helping more than 500 organisations and 11,000 artists so far. The London Growth Hub and Pay It Forward London are also supporting those creative businesses, many of these in outer London. Our flagship programmes will be key to recovery: East Bank, the Museum of London and the Thames Estuary Production Corridor will create jobs and empower local communities. The Schools Programme in my Creative Enterprise Zones will increase diversity in the industry, not least the young people in Brent, who benefit from being the London Borough of Culture.

Navin Shah: Thank you, MrMayor. What resources are you able to make available and what are your expectations from Government lobbying to finance artists and creative workers, who tend to work on a freelance basis and are really struggling?

Sadiq Khan: Thank you for your question and raising this issue, because I worry that just like in relation to some of the Chancellor’s announcements in relation to supporting business, I worry that the Secretary of State’s announcement in relation to £1.57billion could lead to some people missing out who need help. You referred to two groups, freelance artists and others. When lobbying the Government to make sure these individuals do not miss out - they are vulnerable, if they do not work, they do not get paid - we are trying to make sure that the Government targets them separately. We are giving support from the Culture at Risk work we are doing that I have already mentioned, but also the Culture at Risk business support to help these areas as well. A lot of this is helping freelancers and other artists who otherwise would miss out.

Navin Shah: There are particular concerns about viability of theatres, where box office takings have dried up virtually overnight. Reopening with social distancing will not make much financial sense and there are warnings of dire consequences if income and funding do dry up. The future of small grassroot venues also looks very bleak, particularly in outer London boroughs, who face financial meltdown unless some intervention takes place. Should a special case be made to extend the furlough scheme for these industries to protect them and their employees?

Sadiq Khan: Absolutely. One of the things I am lobbying the Government to do is to extend the furlough scheme in a flexible way for those sectors, hospitality, culture, the creative industries, where it is simply not possible in the short to medium term to have the numbers for these businesses to reopen. The choice the Government has is targeted support for these sectors or if it will not give targeted support, these businesses will go bust, those theatres or other cultural businesses, people become unemployed and the Government has got to step in to give benefits and other support. We are lobbying the Government to do so. In the meantime, we are targeting the work that we are able to do with the Culture at Risk work, the £2.3million and other support to outer London, but also to those theatres and places of business that cannot reopen in the short to medium term.
I am afraid the bad news is it is not just the small theatres and those in outer London. You will be hearing, I am afraid, over the next few days and weeks announcements for some of the big cultural institutions, who will be consulting and they will be making redundancies in the short to medium term.

Navin Shah: Thank you, MrMayor. That is all from me.

Filling the public transport capacity gap

Keith Prince: With lockdown rules reducing public transport capacity by around 80%, to what extent do you anticipate different transport modes filling the gap?

Sadiq Khan: TfL is now running transport services at near-normal levels, but even with recent changes to social distancing guidelines, the number of people that London’s transport network can safely carry continues to be significantly constrained and capacity should still be prioritised for those who must use public transport.
As more people return to their physical places of work and more businesses and venues reopen, millions of journeys a day will need to be made by alternative means. London’s road to recovery cannot be clogged up by cars. If we allow journeys that were previously taken on public transport to be replaced with car trips, we risk London grinding to a halt. Potential deliveries and emergency services will be slowed down, air pollution levels will rise and road danger will increase.
That is why we have introduced our Streetspace for London plan, which is creating more space on the streets to enable those who can safely walk or cycle. TfL is working with boroughs to deliver over 850 schemes across the capital, helping people to safely walk and cycle while relieving pressure on our roads and public transport networks.
We have already seen big increases in the number of people using Santander Cycles. June [2020] saw the first ever normal weekday experiencing over 50,000 hires and more cycles and docking stations are being added to keep up with the unprecedented demand. To support those using their own bikes TfL has also added an initial 1,000 extra cycle parking spaces across London, focused around busy areas like high streets and transport hubs, over 500 of which have now been delivered.
It is essential that we do not replace one health crisis with another, fuelled by toxic air pollution. I am determined that our recovery is clean, green and sustainable with as many trips as possible walked or cycled.

Keith Prince: Thank you. I cannot see you, MrMayor. I do not know why that is. I just have a big ‘SK’ coming up. Is everyone else having that problem? Maybe it is just me.
First of all, can I start by thanking you and your team for the help you have been giving me in relation to Buses 4 Homeless? It has been quite helpful. I appreciate that. Credit where it is due. Thank you.
The other thing is on the Congestion Charge, MrMayor. I am wondering. I get why you have had to do it and why you do it, but I have had some questions from the logistics companies. Clearly, what they used to do is they used to avoid as much as possible the hours of the Congestion Charge and then deliver so that they were not contributing to congestion. These logistics businesses are vital to our London economy. By expanding the Congestion Charge in the way that you have, you have encapsulated them as well.
Do you want to comment on that or think on that, MrMayor?

Sadiq Khan: Firstly, can I thank AssemblyMemberPrince for his kind comments about the work we are doing for rough sleepers. He referred to the buses.
In relation to the level and scope of the Congestion Charge, unfortunately one of the conditions attached to us receiving a grant from the Government was to both reintroduce immediately the Congestion Charge, which I had suspended because of COVID, and secondly increase the level and scope of the Charge to £15, as you are aware, and up to 10.00pm.
This is a temporary measure, Keith, and so what we are going to do is make sure we address some of the concerns you have talked about. You are right. There are issues in relation to delivery to stores and food to supermarkets, which, as you will be aware, was previously delivered after the evening time to avoid paying the Congestion Charge, which can have a real impact on profit margins. During this temporary phase when the level and scope have been increased, we will be taking on board some of those points when it comes to us going from the temporary increase to, in inverted commas, ‘business as usual’.
Any other comments like that please do feed into TfL because it is really important that we recognise any unintended consequences.

Keith Prince: I am very short on time, MrMayor, but I want to make one more plea again with you around motorbikes and how essential they are for getting things around London, how important they are to people on low wages, how important they are to reducing congestion and how important they are to keeping people off other forms of public transport, which we need for essential workers. The fact is that some essential workers use motorbikes, MrMayor.
Is there any way that you could, even just during this difficult period that all Londoners are going through, waive the Ultra Low Emission Zone (ULEZ) charge on older bikes for a short period so that people can get around while we do not have the capacity on the public transport system, MrMayor?

Sadiq Khan: I should probably share with you that one of the representations I received on the options as part of increasing the level of charges and widening the scope was to include motorcycles in the Congestion Charge. I rejected that choice‑‑

Keith Prince: Very wise.

Sadiq Khan: ‑‑ and what I have not done is to require motorcycles to pay the Congestion Charge. I am trying to share with you some of the challenges we have.
In relation to the ULEZ, 94% of motorbikes are ULEZ-compliant. It is a very small minority that are not. At the moment, we still have an air quality crisis and so we are not going to change the ULEZ policy.
What we are trying to do, though - and I know you care about this passionately - is to make sure our motorcyclists are safe. I am really keen to work with you, bearing in mind your influence, to make sure we address that issue. The bad news is that the number of motorcyclists injured or who lost their lives during this period is heart-breaking.

Keith Prince: Exactly. I have run out of time. Thank you very much, MrMayor.

Appropriate adults

Keith Prince: Please can you provide an update on appropriate adults?

Sadiq Khan: Appropriate adults have an important role to play in police custody by ensuring that the detained person they are assisting, whether a child or a vulnerable adult, understands what is happening to them and why. I pay tribute to all of London’s appropriate adults, who have continued to deliver services vital to the delivery of safe and humane justice even during the COVID pandemic. Their services are essential to the delivery of safe, efficient and effective custody suites, yet we know that service provision across London varies considerably. The services do not always provide 24-hour coverage, some provided by volunteers and others by paid agency staff. In addition, local authorities are only obliged to provide services to children, although some do provide support to vulnerable adults, while others do not. It cannot be right that such inconsistencies in the safeguarding of vulnerable detainees persists, delaying interview and charging processes and lengthening the time that the most vulnerable detainees remain in custody.
Whilst MOPAC has no statutory duty to provide appropriate adult services, as responsibility mostly falls to local authorities, I have taken action beyond my remit to enhance service provision to the benefit of the most vulnerable detainees. We have provided the MPS with £240,000 per year, which has been match-funded by NHS England to develop over three years a new joint approach to the provision of appropriate adult services for both children and adults at risk. The new approach provides 24-hour appropriate adult services for both children and vulnerable adults. The MPS is working hard to encourage all local authorities to sign up to the new joint approach. New arrangements are being put in place with several boroughs, taking lead commissioning roles across a group of boroughs. As of now, 11 boroughs have 24-hour services for both adults and children. This has increased by eight due to the joint approach and the investment we have made. Another three boroughs are expected to come on board shortly.

Keith Prince: Thank you, MrMayor. I am very short on time. I do not want to have a row with you on this, I just want to bring to your attention that for many years the volunteers - and they are the people who lobby me - have been asking for simply £20 a visit for out of pocket expenses, which they have not been given. That is why we are seeing a massive reduction in volunteers, but more importantly, MrMayor, this is a legal requirement that these appropriate adults are independent.
My question to you is if MOPAC, which employs the MPS, is putting money into this scheme, will there be a legal challenge as to its independence? I am very happy to take this offline, MrMayor.

Sadiq Khan: Chair, what the Assembly Member refers to is the role of the appropriate adult, but also one of the reasons why we have stepped in to support the system is concerns raised by the independent custody visitors, who were concerned some detainees are waiting hours and hours and hours for the appropriate adult to turn up, which means vulnerable people are often in police custody longer than they should be. You will be aware that the police are not able to interview somebody sometimes unless there is an appropriate adult present. The obligations and the duties are on councils and we are trying to step in, with the NHS and councils, to try to provide a system that gives detainees who are vulnerable the support they need, but if there are other things that can be done that are cost-effective, we will deal with the issue.

Keith Prince: Thank you, MrMayor. I appreciate that. I appreciate what you are trying to do. There are more. Perhaps we could discuss it offline. Thank you.

Temporary Changes to Road Layouts

Tony Devenish: How will you ensure that where temporary changes to London's road layouts prove to be mistakes they can be swiftly adapted or removed?

Sadiq Khan: With social distancing limiting the numbers of customers who can safely be carried on public transport, our Streetspace programme is roughly transforming our streets to enable a massive increase in journeys both on foot and by bike. We are reallocating road space to make walking and cycling easier and safer for millions more Londoners. This programme of work is vital to minimise the risk to the public of transmission of the coronavirus. TfL has been working closely with borough partners to design and build Streetspace schemes with over 800 separate interventions already approved. While speed is of the essence to ensure we do not see a spike in car use, TfL is continually reviewing the performance of Streetspace schemes, both to protect essential journeys and make changes following feedback from Londoners. Tweaks have already been made at several of the 29 sites where changes have been made on the Transport for London road network. We will continue to monitor and adjust schemes and have set up a dedicated page on the TfL consultation hub to facilitate this.

Tony Devenish: Thank you, MrMayor, for your answer. You will appreciate road surface use is always contentious and we all want more cycling and more walking, but at a time when we are trying to get people to keep their one-metre distance we do need people to be able to drive as well. Would you be able to get your Deputy Mayor to meet me before September for a site visit to Park Lane and Edgware Road because, it is not the principle of the schemes we object to, it is the way they have been designed, and it is causing real congestion already when at the moment obviously we do not have that much traffic in London. If Heidi [Alexander, Deputy Mayor for Transport] had the time I would be very grateful to meet her on Park Lane and then take her to Edgware Road. Thank you.

Sadiq Khan: Thank you, Chair, I would be happy to do so, just to reassure the Assembly Member. The local MP also raised an issue, which we have addressed, but I am more than happy to facilitate that.

Tony Devenish: Thank you very much.

Risk factors for localised COVID-19 outbreaks

Onkar Sahota: What geographical areas, demographics, and economic sectors have you assessed to be higher risk for renewed coronavirus outbreaks, and what steps are you taking to reduce and prepare for this risk?

Sadiq Khan: As a category one responder, I have duties under the Civil Contingencies Act [2004] to plan, prepare for and respond to emergencies. At the outset of the crisis I convened the Strategic Coordinating Group (SCG) and I am proud of how partners have collaborated through this unprecedented and challenging period to support Londoners, protect the health and care system, and save lives. I have now established the London Transition Board with the Secretary of State for Housing Communities and Local Government. The Board is responsible for overseeing and co-ordinating the next phase of London’s response as we emerge from lockdown.
Our understanding about the places, people and sectors at greatest risk of outbreaks is developing rapidly. Therefore, it is crucial to have close links with the experts and processes that keep this under review. That is why we have commissioned the University of Manchester to conduct a review of the disproportionate impact of COVID-19 on different groups in London.
When early regional and national evidence identified that transport workers may be at greater risk of exposure, I commissioned an urgent review from University College London (UCL) of transport worker deaths in London. The GLA Intelligence Unit has mapped some of the risk factors for coronavirus in London and identified that factors associated with socioeconomic deprivation, including poor living conditions and low-paid insecure work, were associated with an increased risk of contracting coronavirus.
Public Health England (PHE) and London’s boroughs have led preparations to manage coronavirus outbreaks and I will continue to support them with this work. PHE is closely monitoring COVID-19 cases in all London boroughs and putting systems in place to identify any significant changes in numbers. All London boroughs have published their local outbreak management plans and are undertaking a peer review process together with PHE in London.
I meet regularly with my Statutory Health Advisor and National Health Service (NHS) and social care leaders to ensure that they are supported and prepared to deliver for Londoners in case of further outbreaks. I have held meetings with faith organisations, businesses and civic societies in order to hear their experiences, concerns and ideas and support them to reduce the risk of outbreaks.

Onkar Sahota: Thank you, MrMayor. Thank you for that answer. Is the NHS test and tracing service providing localised data to the GLA so that you can see where there is lower engagement with the programmes that are on offer? Are you getting localised data from the NHS?

Sadiq Khan: Yes and no. We are working closely with PHE’s London Coronavirus Response Centre, which provides data to London’s Directors of Public Health, who work for the councils. We have information from there.
Separately, we do not yet have information from the new online regional dashboard and we are working with the Department of Health to try to give us access to this because this will help us in relation to patterns across London and characteristics of those who have taken the test and those who have tested positive. We hope to have access shortly, which will really help going forward.

Onkar Sahota: Of course, MrMayor, that is very important, particularly, as we have seen in Leicester, we can get areas. Even data on a ward level will be very helpful, but hopefully the NHS will provide you with the data.
The other thing that will happen is that it has been predicted that the second wave will come at the same time as the as the flu virus comes in the community. As you know, we in London do worse than the rest of the country on vaccination rates.
Will you be working on a programme to push the flu vaccination so that we are well prepared to meet the second wave when it comes on?

Sadiq Khan: Onkar, you will know from your work as a doctor about the difference having the flu jab can make to alleviating the pressure and taking the pressure off the NHS and also helping those of us who should be having a flu jab avoid the misery of getting the flu. It is really important that the Assembly does what it can, bearing in mind you have huge contacts, and I will make sure I provide support as well to encourage everyone to get the flu jab. It is really important to vaccinate against getting the flu because that will take the pressure off the NHS at a time when it could be under pressure because of a second wave of COVID-19.

Onkar Sahota: Great. Thank you, MrMayor.

Policing and the easing of lockdown regulations

Len Duvall: How are youworking with the Metropolitan Police Serviceto put strategies in place to tackle an increase in crime, particularly violent crime, as lockdown continues to ease in London?

Sadiq Khan: Chair, I feared for a second you were going to say that a frozen frame of me is an improvement on the alternative!
Can I thank the AssemblyMember for his question. While crime fell by almost a third during lockdown, we have begun to see crime levels begin to increase as lockdown measures are eased. Across City Hall and the MPS we are focused on doing everything we can to suppress crime and maintain the momentum we were building in the fight against violence. Before lockdown we saw a reduction of 15% over the last financial year for knife crime involving under-25s and 23% from its high point in 2017.
The MPS has been using lockdown to focus on identifying and targeting offenders responsible for the most serious crimes. Since 13March [2020] officers have recovered more than 450 knives, 320 offensive weapons and 115 firearms and have made 2,500 other seizures, mostly drugs. Officers have been targeting up to 1,000 of London’s most prolific violent offenders, visiting them personally and, alongside local authorities and other partners, offering them support to turn their lives around. The MPS has also launched its new Violence Suppression Units, with more than 600 officers dedicated to tackling violence at a local level.
Work also continues to address the underlying causes of crime. Through our Violence Reduction Unit (VRU), we have invested £1million across two programmes, one to fund an intensive leadership programme for 100 youth workers and the other to extend a police custody diversion scheme, which uses youth coaches to divert young people away from crime towards positive opportunities.
However, as I have long maintained, violent crime is a national problem that needs national solutions. I have written to the Prime Minister to urge him to lead a multiagency effort to prevent a rise in violent crime across the country. I have also written to the Home Secretary seeking assurances about the current financial situation, which could see City Hall forced to make £500million in savings, which could jeopardise plans to recruit more police officers and our ability to tackle violent crime at this critical juncture.

Len Duvall: Thank you, MrMayor. Can I just say how grateful I am for the way that you answered the question earlier on to AssemblyMemberBerry? The key issue that I thought that was missing is that in any new plan that comes forward in terms of engagement, it cannot be just about engagement. It has to be a discussion about some of the tactics that are open to the police in suppressing violent crime. The trends, as you have said, are already there. Academics are monitoring gang activity and are predicting a tsunami of gang-related violence. It is not just that that we have in our communities. There are other forms of violence.
Much that we have an economic development plan, should we use this opportunity when there is a real conversation going on about trust and confidence in the police not just in certain sections of our society but across our society? People are pretty aghast at some issues they see in a limited form on social media.
I am surprised you did not mention body-worn cameras as a bit of a gamechanger in some of those issues and, when we do discover something has gone terribly wrong, we take some fast action.
In terms of a policing plan you have your strategy, but should we have a post-COVID-19 issue about priorities and get buy-in from all communities of London? Here are my starters for the plan about that.
On the economic downturn, yesterday the Police and Crime Committee returned to the issues of modern-day slavery. You put it on the agenda, MrMayor, and people started taking it seriously. It is alive and well in our communities, sadly. The question is: it is going to get worse with the economic downturn and so can we use this period to push on and buy in the support of communities? The police alone cannot deal with slavery in its modern forms. They need the help of others.
Secondly, can I thank you for the work you have done on supporting the domestic violence register in terms of the Assembly’s asks? There are now two amendments in Parliament, one from [The Rt Hon] YvetteCooper [MP] amending the way the multiagency public protection arrangement (MAPPA) adviser system works in dealing and perpetuating sexual offenders. Then there is [The Rt Hon] Liz Saville Roberts’ [MP] amendment, which is a straightforward amendment to the register. They give us the same outcome in some ways about monitoring the most serial perpetrators of domestic violence.
Can you write to every London Member of Parliament (MP) asking them to look at those amendments and see whether they would support those amendments? Those who are against the abuse register are really saying, “More of the same, thank you”. We cannot go with more of the same on domestic violence. We need another kickstart in this area to push us on to trying to drive down this aspect of violent crime in our communities.
Finally, going back to the work that you outlined around the [Violence] Suppression Units, it is important that we take communities with us. It is important that we make a difference. There is an issue of over-policing and under-policing that needs a mature discussion about why certain things are taking place. We seem to have lost that somewhere in terms of that sort of issue. Engagement and oversight and scrutiny is important in policing, but actually how we are policed is more important.

Sadiq Khan: As ever, AssemblyMemberDuvall raises lots of really good points in his question. He has the art of asking 17 questions in one, Chair. I do not know whether there is a special standing order for Len. Let me deal with his three points.
On modern slavery and domestic abuse, the core of what the AssemblyMember was saying is absolutely right. We cannot have a situation where a lot of society’s ills are put on the police’s doorstep for them to solve. It is a bit unfair to expect the police to solve the issue of modern slavery by themselves, as AssemblyMemberDuvall alluded to, or the issue of domestic abuse. The police do a good job, but there is a role for me to play from City Hall and also other members of society. When you are a customer going into a place where there could be workers who are abused and could be modern slaves ask yourself the question, “Are there alarm bells that need to be reporting this to the authorities?”
There is an issue, though, I have to say, with local authorities having their budgets cut. Their ability to monitor this is going to be affected as well. It is a good question that we should be asking ourselves and a responsibility we have.
In relation to domestic abuse, as ever, a good idea. What would be even more powerful - and I will ask my office to liaise with you and also with the various groups - is if I could write to the MPs and say, “This is a cross-party view of City Hall”. It makes it much more powerful. What I will do is, through the usual channels, speak to the various Group leaders to see if they are agreeable to me saying, “This is the view of City Hall”. That would really make the letter more powerful. You are right about the importance and the difference that a register can make.
In relation to violence suppression, you raised a number of interesting points there. There is this balance we have to strike between on the one hand we have some communities who suffer higher levels of violent crime than other communities and are asking for additional policing and on the other hand we do not want to be accused of over-policing a community, which can lead to targeting and concerns of disproportionality.
That is why we are doing a combination of approaches. The Violent Crime Taskforce is targeting those areas where there is high violent crime. The Violence Suppression Units are across London. They are pan-London. They are in all 12 Basic Command Units (BCUs) and the importance of them is to get a real feel of the area, get under the skin of the community, be the eyes and ears and work well with the BCUs because they are part of the BCUs as well. You are right that there is a challenge to be struck there.
One of our roles as leading politicians in London is to use the platform we have to educate people about the important role the police have. We have policing by consent. The police cannot do it by themselves. They are far more effective if Londoners are the eyes of the police and that trust and confidence is so important.

Len Duvall: Thank you.

TfL land

Nicky Gavron: Do you think that selling off Transport for London’s land and other assets would be a good response to the financial pressures of the COVID-19 crisis?

Sadiq Khan: As one of London’s largest landowners, TfL is uniquely placed to generate long-term income by retaining and developing its property assets rather than selling them off for short-term financial gain. TfL’s property development programme has grown extensively during my Mayoralty and has formed a partnership with over 20 developers and has more than 50 sites ready for development with 1,200 homes under construction and planning permission in place for 3,000 more. TfL has submitted proposals for a further 4,500 homes to London boroughs and plans to submit another 4,500 in the coming months. These homes, half of which will be genuinely affordable, are desperately needed. TfL has also a large tenanted commercial property estate, which is home to more than 2,000 businesses, of which 86% are small and medium-sized enterprises. This provides steady long-term revenue and contributes to the vibrancy of their communities. TfL will consider targeted disposals where appropriate. Just last year, TfL sold a long leasehold interest in 55 Broadway as part of its long-term estate management strategy to reduce office costs and generate revenue. However, it would be short-sighted for TfL to sell off its estate now, especially when COVID-19 has had such a well-documented impact on the property market.

Nicky Gavron: Thank you very much, MrMayor, for that response. You made it very clear that, if TfL were to sell land, once sold you have no control over it, you have no prospects of further income, and you do not have the ways of meeting your strategic objectives.
Do you think, because you have a phenomenal number of affordable homes on TfL land, the number of affordable homes on TfL-owned land, which have been built and will be built, would be there if you sell to private developers?

Sadiq Khan: There is no chance. We know this because of the evidence of the previous eight years, and so it is possible to sell of what I call the crown jewels to maximise monies, but it is a one-off hit, once they are sold they are sold. Often they are sold at a price that means that a person who purchases that, the company, needs to build market-value/luxury properties to get their money back. It is far better in the long term for us to keep the freehold, work with a developer, a joint venture, they can make profit, but we can ensure that at least some of the homes that are built, we are asking for half, should be affordable. I call it a win-win, keep the assets, we spread them better, but get something that Londoners desperately need, which are affordable homes.

Nicky Gavron: It is great to hear about housing, the way housing land is being used to deliver public benefit. Here is an idea that could extend the amount of land TfL has to control, which is to pool TfL land with adjacent sites. That was one of the ideas that came out of your absolutely excellent, you commissioned it a couple of years ago, capital gains report. They suggested that.
I am wondering now that if you would be prepared to lobby the Government, with a devolution white paper coming up, for the ability to have powers to be able to use adjacent land as well as further powers, the Land Assembly, because you have been asked by the Secretary of State to find new sources of housing supply and this would be an answer.

Sadiq Khan: That is a question, and I know you have long expertise in this area, the good news is, in the conversations we have had with not just MHCLG but other Ministries in Government, is they appreciate the ability we have to bring together often small plots of land next to a bigger plot of land, which can improve the scale of the development on that piece of land. We are already talking to Network Rail, local authorities, Government departments. The NHS has been fantastic, and so we have London Estates Group, which is doing some work in this area, and the approach from the Department of Health and Social Care, as it is called now, has been very good. I am hoping this sort of collegiate working is really good. Often, Nicky, we can be the ringmaster bringing together different partners to maximise the potential of our land. That is what is really important working with councils too. Councils often have landholdings, could be next to a general practice, it could be next to a TfL site, next to a Network Rail site, which we can do a huge amount. One example where we are doing this now is the Old Oak and Park Royal Development Corporation and we are hoping to see more examples of that.

Navin Shah: MrMayor, we are out of time, thank you very much. I have an indication from Assembly Member Boff who wants to follow up. Assembly Member Boff.

Support for Small Businesses Re-opening After Lockdown

Florence Eshalomi: Many small businesses need immediate support to safely re-open post lockdown – for example in sourcing protective equipment such asvisors, gloves and putting up ‘social distancing’ signage, which could take weeks. There is also a need for clearer guidance for instances where social distancing is almost impossible. What can the Mayor do to support these businesses to open up quickly and safely?

Sadiq Khan: It has been great to see so many shops, cafés and restaurants open in recent weeks. I welcome the fact that thousands of businesses that have seen their turnover hit during this crisis are now up and running again.
However, the short notice provided by the Government in confirming the reopening date for restaurants, cafés and pubs and the late issue of guidance and legislation created difficulties for many - especially small, independent - businesses who simply did not have the time or resources to put in place the safety measures you mentioned in your question.
With London Councils, I established a High Street Reopening Task and Finish Group, chaired by the Night Czar [Amy Lamé], with representatives from a range of local authorities, the MPS, licensing experts and business bodies to help co-ordinate action and additional guidance in the run-up to the reopening of restaurants, bars and pubs on 4July [2020].
We have directly supported small businesses to reopen safely through providing free access to business support advisors and webinars through the London Growth Hub and particularly the COVID-19 support hub on the Growth Hub website. I continue to encourage Londoners to start rediscovering their reopened high streets and of course to do so safely by following social distancing guidance. We relaunched the #LondonIsOpen campaign to support the reopening of the hospitality sector and London & Partners have built an alliance around the Because I Am a Londoner campaign to support consumer confidence.
Nevertheless, many businesses will continue to struggle, which is why I have called for a targeted extension of the furlough scheme to the most affected sectors. To help, I have provided £1million to support businesses to sustain or accelerate via the Growth Hub, where the vast majority are small businesses that have been supported, and a £2.3million Culture at Risk Fund to support cultural businesses, where the vast majority of businesses supported are small businesses. We are also continuing to support businesses through Pay It Forward London, which has already seen over 170 businesses, mainly small ones, receive £250,000 with the help of more than 4,000 Londoners.

Florence Eshalomi: Thank you, MrMayor, and thank you for your support in championing those small businesses, which are the lifeblood of London in terms of their employment to so many Londoners.
I have been out about my constituency just visiting some of those businesses and the key thing that comes back is that lack of guidance coming from central Government. They do welcome the approach now on face masks but, again, there are still some concerns.
You mentioned the Growth Hub and you have mentioned the Culture at Risk Fund. Is there anything more that you think City Hall could be doing - I totally appreciate that funding is tight - to really help those small, independent businesses get back on their feet quickly and safely?

Sadiq Khan: Firstly, thank you for your leadership in your constituency. I have seen on social media some of your pictures outside the various shops on your high streets. You going back shows confidence to your constituents that the shops and businesses are safe. That is really good stuff and all of us are doing that in our own communities as well.
In addition to the various measures I have announced, another measure that may help businesses in your constituency but across London is that we are now reprioritising some of the Greater London Investment Fund towards a resilience loan, which will help businesses in your patch. It will help with cashflow in particular. It is £4.3million of this and it is being repurposed to help businesses at 0% interest. It will help in relation to the first year of the businesses that you are talking about.
I am concerned about businesses falling through the cracks and so I continue to lobby the Government. What I want to do is to target some of the furlough schemes in those sectors that will not be able to recover as quickly. Any ideas that the Assembly has I am in the business of listening to. I want to see if we can target some of the help to these small businesses, which, as you say, are the lifeline of our economy.

Florence Eshalomi: Thank you, MrMayor. Finally, at the first meeting of the London Recovery Board on 4June, attendees noted that the fact that London’s businesses are diverse and they serve a range of different residents. We know that COVID and the lockdown restrictions have had a disproportionate impact on female and black, Asian and minority ethnic (BAME) led businesses, some of them who were not able to trade online.
Can you assure that any additional support going forward from City Hall offered to these businesses does not take a one-size-fits-all approach, instead that we have a more tailored approach to help these businesses?

Sadiq Khan: You raise such an important point. One of the things that we discovered in relation to our business programmes when I became Mayor is there was no thinking about, when it came to entrepreneurship, black Londoners, BAME Londoners, women entrepreneurs. They could not get access from the usual places like banks and so what we have done under my leadership is make sure we are targeting support. When it comes to international business, we target the sort of diverse entrepreneurs you are talking about, women-only trips or BAME trips, but also we have given loan facilities and capital to these sorts of business who cannot access traditional ways of going in.
We have now, AssemblyMember Eshalomi, the Growth Hub giving bespoke advice to some of these businesses, including signposting. My message through you is any of your businesses in your community can now get one-to-one advice from our advisers. We have seen that really makes a difference. It does not necessarily mean money. We can often advise about Government schemes that businesses are unaware of, so please signpost them to our Growth Hub and we will make sure we give individual advice to in particular some of those entrepreneurs you are talking about, who have made so many sacrifices to launch and are now having the heart-breaking possibility of their businesses going bust because of this global pandemic.

Florence Eshalomi: Great. Thank you, MrMayor. Thank you, Chair.

Keeping the Transport Network Safe

Alison Moore: Is TfL maintaining a two-metre social distancing rule on the network or will they move to one-metre plus?

Sadiq Khan: Thank you, Chair. The number of people that can safely use London’s transport network continues to be constrained and ensuring the safety of customers and staff on the transport is my priority. TfL has done significant work to help facilitate social distancing on the public transport network. It has been in close contact with the DfT, PHE and other bodies throughout the pandemic to ensure that the correct advice is being given to customers. The current Government guidance is that whether on the transport network or elsewhere, people should maintain a social distance of twometres, if possible. If this is not possible, they should then take a one‑metre plus distance. There are clearly some occasions on the transport network, as in other settings, where maintaining a two‑metre social distance is going to be impossible. This is why customers must wear a face covering unless they are exempt. Face coverings should cover the nose and the mouth and be used for the entirety of the journey, including on platforms and in ticket halls.
On buses, drivers can control entry and therefore can limit the number of customers on board at any one time. Controlling passenger boarding is more difficult on the Underground, but TfL’s data suggests that as services increase to near pre-pandemic levels, Tube services have been able to meet demand and support social distancing. There is even available capacity outside of peak hours. I am pleased that TfL has been able to run services at nearly 100% and to help customers maintain social distancing as much as possible. To enhance safety, TfL has placed 1,000 hand sanitising points across the transport network for people to use. There is also social distancing signage and posters across the network and one-way systems have been introduced to help passengers keep their distance. TfL will continue to closely monitor public transport usage and will take all steps necessary and practical to keep customers and staff safe on the network.

Alison Moore: Thank you very much, MrMayor. This is all crucial to public confidence in using the public transport system when they need to. When I have had to do so recently, I have to say I have noticed a mixed picture around face coverings. MrMayor, on 25June TfL said 90% of passengers on the network were using a face mask, but as I said, I see a mixed picture.
Can you update me on that figure and confirm the percentages of those passengers who are not wearing a mask who were exempt and those who were not exempt and therefore liable to enforcement action?

Sadiq Khan: Sure. Thank you for your intelligence in relation to your experience, I suspect in outer London. That is really useful to know. The figures I have got are figures from TfL commissioned research and by their nature, they are averages. TfL commissioned research shows that around 90% of customers are wearing a face covering on our public transport network at all times. Of the remaining 10% who are not wearing a covering or at any other time, around half say they had an exemption, and that is 5% of our customers saying they have an exemption to the rules and regulations, which means 5% have not. We will continue to enforce going forward.

Alison Moore: In the context of that enforcement, MrMayor, I appreciate that the legal position, the statutory position for TfL enforcement officers to be able to act came out at the beginning of July. When did enforcement action actually start against those not wearing face coverings and how many fines have been issued to date? It would be really helpful, because of that mixed picture, to understand the breakdown of fines across mode of transport, whether it is buses, Tubes, the Docklands Light Railway (DLR) or surface rail.

Sadiq Khan: Thanks for your question. It is on buses where we tend to have not as many people using a face covering. On Tubes and the DLR it tends to be higher. The focus in the 30 weeks has been British Transport Police and TfL enforcement officers on buses, so there are three tools that they have. One is to stop somebody getting on public transport if they are not wearing a face covering or to ask them to put them on; secondly, to ask them to leave the network or put on a face covering if they have got one and they are willing to do so and they are not exempt; thirdly, to issue a fixed penalty notice. The figures that I have got are that 18,500 people were stopped as of Monday or had a conversation with. That figure has now increased from Monday to today and there have been 20,168 interactions - and they were primarily on the buses - to enforce face coverings. A lot of these people, by the way, will put on a face covering when challenged. On fixed penalty notices, as of yesterday, 61 fixed penalty notices have been issued to people for refusing to wearing a face covering when travelling.

Alison Moore: Thank you, MrMayor. I will leave it there, other than to urge you to look at some of the hotspots around the Tube network. Thank you, Chair, and thank you, MrMayor.

Police Safety

Susan Hall: Are you satisfied that police officers were given appropriate protections during recent protests?

Sadiq Khan: I absolutely condemn the scenes of violence and disorder we have witnessed on our streets over recent weeks, whether it has been due to people hijacking protests or the unlicensed music events we have seen across the capital. The MPS will continue to investigate these unacceptable crimes, including violence against police officers, and to bring offenders to justice. I am pleased that more than 250 arrests have already been made. I also want to pay tribute to those officers on the front line, who have been working long hours in often challenging conditions to prevent disorder and to keep Londoners safe. Policing large crowds can be complex and potentially dangerous work, but officers are well-trained for these situations and are appropriately equipped. The MPS is one of the most experienced police forces in the world at dealing with disorder and are some of the best public order commanders in the country.
There is no-one-size-fits-all response to public disorder. Police strategy and tactics are determined by the highly trained public order commanders and their decisions are based on the specific situation they face and the intelligence available to them. These decisions include which officers to deploy, what protective equipment they should wear and when. Not every situation requires officers to respond with full public order equipment and tactics from the beginning and often early engagement can prevent an escalation of disorder. There is a clear chain of command and accountability put in place for public order incidents, whether they are planned or spontaneous gatherings. These are judgments for experienced police leaders to make and I trust their knowledge and training to ensure officers are appropriately equipped for any given situation. I have discussed these issues with the Commissioner and her team and I take professional advice on how best to protect officers from her and her team. I support these operational decisions and those of the senior team in making sure officers have the tools they need to keep themselves and the public safe.

Susan Hall: Thank you, MrMayor. I agree with you. I applaud these frontline officers. I really do. I do not know if you heard that yesterday in the Police and Crime Committee it was explained that attacks on the police had been on the rise, unfortunately, in recent months and indeed black officers were attacked apparently more vociferously during the recent protests. SirStephenHouse [QPM, Deputy Commissioner, MPS] was very clear that a portion of these attacks came from the Black Lives Matter protestors themselves.
You mentioned earlier in your responses to AssemblyMembersBerry and Duvall that you want Londoners to have trust and confidence in the police, but do such attacks not suggest that there is a long way to go to achieve this? Would you commit to look into why these officers are attacked in such a way and provide them with the support that they need?

Sadiq Khan: Thanks for your question and the way you raised it and what you are concerned about. I was really distressed when I spoke to black officers during the first Black Lives Matter protest - it was midweek - and what was distressing, in addition to the abuse and violence that officers faced, was when I was told that black officers were being verbally abused and attacked by those on the Black Lives Matter movement protest. We are doing all this hard work to recruit black officers, to keep them, to progress them and yet members of the community are giving them a hard time for joining the police service. It is really difficult.
One of the things that the MPS is doing - as you are a big advocate of, I know - is the welfare of our police. What the police have done is to make sure these BAME officers are given additional support and welfare support in real time, because it really is distressing. You are right that we have to learn the lessons from this, but also by talking about it, we have to make sure Londoners appreciate it is unacceptable to attack officers either verbally or doing other things, and that includes our BAME officers.

Susan Hall: Absolutely right. I would ask you, as Mayor, to please make it clear that our police and the police in the United States are very different in terms of approach, tactics and actually their general relationship with the public. We all need to do everything we can to stop the police being regarded as the enemy in many communities. As our leader, MrMayor, I would beg you to actually make that clear.

Sadiq Khan: There is not much of what you said that I disagree with. I think we have got to recognise that in our city, in our society, our police are very different from American police officers, not least in relation to the vast majority of officers being unarmed; we police by consent. We do not have the sort of examples, thankfully, of the brutality you see in the United States, but there are examples of disproportionality and the police take them very seriously, the concerns the public have.
You have heard me answer in a previous question talking about the steps we are taking to address concerns that Londoners have around disproportionality. I would not say, and nor do senior police officers, that we are perfect, but we are a million miles away from some of the police force examples you see in the United States. That does not mean I am trivialising this concern people have around racism, inequality and discrimination. What I am trying to say is that our police work really hard to earn the trust and confidence of Londoners and will continue to do so. Our action plan is where we can rebuild some of that trust and confidence, particularly in some communities.

Susan Hall: I hope so, MrMayor. Thank you very much, Chair.

Volume Crime

Steve O'Connell: Is Volume Crime one of your priorities?

Sadiq Khan: While tackling volume crime is not my number one priority, I am still committed to do everything in my power to reduce volume crime. The approaches set out in the Police and Crime Plan have been to empower local police and councils to work together to solve the most significant crime problems in their area, whilst ensuring high harm crime, as child sexual exploitation, violence and knife crime are part of the everyday business for local policing. Whilst crime has been increasing across the country and in London, some volume crime priorities such as burglary and criminal damage have started to come down over the last financial year. The decrease in crime during the lockdown has also allowed the MPS to capitalise on this unprecedented shift and target offenders responsible for the most serious crimes.
The MPS and I are focusing on trying to ensure that levels of crime do not return to previous levels and the good work that was underway before pandemic is not lost. Prior to lockdown, my principal focus was attacking violence. This has been challenging against a backdrop of limited resources and officers and I have to prioritise this work, but progress was being made, with a 15% reduction in knife crime in under-25s over the last financial year. The MPS has also had success in tackling volume crime. For example, MetTrace, which we fund, is the flagship burglary prevention programme, which has seen residents provided with detailed prevention advice and a MetTrace kit to help deter criminals. You will remember the significant concern about moped crime a couple of years ago. Through effective policing and working with manufacturers and other partners, the figures have plummeted by more than 22.4%.

Steve O’Connell: Thank you very much, MrMayor. Good afternoon to you.

Sadiq Khan: You too.

Steve O’Connell: Thank you for your comments. I appreciate fully the number one priority of serious violence in London, but of course it is a blessing that many Londoners do not experience serious violence, but they experience what I would prefer to call neighbourhood crimes, burglary, robbery and vehicle crimes.
There has recently been a report by HMICFRS about sanction detections and I would like your comments on these figures for London. This is sanction detections. If you had a vehicle damaged or a crime against you, you have a one in 100 chance of that being taken to court. If indeed you are burgled in London, it is something like one in 20. If you have the misfortunate of being robbed in London, you have something like a one in 30 chance of that crime being fully investigated and taken to court and you given satisfaction. What do you think about those figures, MrMayor?

Sadiq Khan: Those figures are not good enough. The sanction detection rates on those volume crimes need to be higher. The police get that. Explaining it is one thing, excusing it is something else. I can explain it, but that is no excuse. You will be aware of the explanation in relation to a few of these officers, they have got to triage and that has an impact on the sanction and detection rates. We are now increasing police officer numbers thanks to contributions from City Hall. The Government has said it will help over the next couple of years, so we should expect to see an improvement to those detection rates.

Steve O’Connell: OK. I have spoken to you about confidence in the police and that has been the theme of today’s meeting up to now, which I fully support. When you took office, confidence in the MPS was around about 68%, 69%. The latest figures I have, it has dropped by 10%. The confidence across London - and we are talking about the neighbourhood - is dropping and that has a direct link with perhaps the crimes that you experience. What are your thoughts around the effect on confidence with Londoners, the fact that their crimes are not being solved?

Sadiq Khan: Actually, if you look at figures - and I have seen the most recent ones - the big dip comes after George Floyd’s brutal killing actually in relation to confidence in our police. A point SusanHall[AM] made was people are extrapolating the experience of American police forces on our police services, which I think is unfair. The big dip you saw in the confidence of Londoners happened actually quite recently, but you are right, in a general sense confidence has been going down, not the dip we have seen recently. One of the reasons why it is going down is people see fewer officers. Why do they see fewer officers? Because there are fewer officers over the last few years and that leads to fewer officers being able to investigate fewer crimes and there being less detection rates. It is a vicious circle.
I am really pleased the Government has finally accepted the point that cuts have consequences and one of the reasons why violent crime has gone up is fewer police officers; one of the reasons why sanction and detection rates has gone down is fewer police officers. We are investing from City Hall record sums in policing and we now have 32,400 police officers, there or thereabouts, so I am hoping to see both an improvement in detection rates, a reduction in violent crime, but also increased confidence from Londoners.

Steve O’Connell: Keeping Londoners safe, I believe - and I think you believe - is your number one priority. When you took over four years ago, you scrapped the volume crime priorities under the Mayor’s Office for Policing and Crime (MOPAC), which is a fair thing to do perhaps, and shifted that emphasis to serious violent crime and others. The unfortunate fact of the matter, MrMayor, is that after four years, serious violence, homicide rates are at all-time high, and equally, the volume crime sanction and detection is still an issue. Basically, Londoners will judge perhaps that you have failed on both of those sections of crime, MrMayor. I am sure you would not agree with me, but what would your comment be to that?

Sadiq Khan: You have always been a fair bloke, and I think if you were being fair would accept that both volume crime and violent crime started going up in 2014, not 2016. It is quite convenient for people in your party to assume that crime only began going up on 8May2016. Not true. You will also be aware that one of the unintended consequences of MOPAC 7 was serious crime was neglected. That was one of the conclusions of the Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Constabulary (HMIC) report in relation to child protection issues. We have tried to have a blend of both high-volume crime, which can be addressed by the local priorities that boroughs have, but also the pan-London issues of priority to serious crime. That is seen, for example, in those boroughs that have as their crime priorities burglary or vehicle-related crime, those going down, and across London you have seen pre-COVID, for example, violent crime, knife crime, those effective under-25 going down, which shows the progress we are making with limited help from central Government, plus from City Hall investing in the Violent Crime Task Force, us investing the VRU and us investing in the Young Londoners Fund, which are starting to pay dividends.
Steve O’Connell AM: I understand. Just finally, I understand fully the issue of the priority of violent crime, but I would ask you very much keep some prioritising on neighbourhood crime and particularly this appalling level of sanction detections. Thank you very much, Chair. That is enough from me.

Navin Shah: I have an indication from AssemblyMemberDesai.

Unmesh Desai: Chair, as I said earlier the issue is one of both more police for London, but also how Londoners are policed. I want to particularly ask about police resources in the capital, MrMayor, to tackle volume crime and indeed other crimes that Londoners face. It helps to have more police officers. Before COVID, the Government had pledged an extra 1,367 officers to the MPS in a bid to repair the damage that it had caused with the £850million fund cut since 2010. This is far less than the 6,000 yourself and the Commissioner called for and the Assembly called for 5,000 extra officers. You already talked about £500million of savings to be made. Cuts have consequences; cuts kill. How important is it that the Government delivers a full 6,000 officers the MPS needs to tackle crime as lockdown continues to ease?

Sadiq Khan: Thank you for your question and for reminding colleagues in the Assembly the reality of the last ten years. There are a number of things. One is the certainty about police numbers over the next two years from the Government. We need a full complement of 6,000, of course, but also the Government asked us to make a further £263million of additional cuts on top of the £850million we have made over the last ten years, caused by Government austerity. But now we are facing the possibility of a new era of austerity, which requires us to make a further £100million cuts potentially of the police service over the next two years. That is why it is really important for us to, as Team London, lobby the Government to give us a fair share of the resources we need to keep our city safe. You are right, cuts have consequences.

Unmesh Desai: Thank you, MrMayor.

Action plan on community policing

Unmesh Desai: I welcome the action plan you have said is being drawn up to help improve transparency, accountability and trust in the Met Police. Are you able to provide more details of what this work will entail?

Sadiq Khan: It is vital that our police service retains the trust and confidence of the communities it serves so that every Londoner, regardless of background or postcode, can feel safe, protected and supported. I am not complacent about this. I have heard concerns and the strength of feeling from some Londoners about a range of issue and the need for urgent action. I know that a lack of trust in the police particularly among black communities is a concern. In spite of the progress that has been made, the disproportionate impact of some police tactics, such as stop and search and the user of tasers, is a significant concern for many Londoners. The action plan will focus on securing greater trust and confidence in policing and how police tactics are used to enable safer communities as well as considering how we deliver a more representative workforce with a proportionate response of London’s black communities.
The action plan has been developed with communities, police and other stakeholders. I would not want to pre-empt the outcome of those discussions. The themes that have emerged from the discussions so far focus on improving cultural awareness and representation in the MPS, holding the MPS to account and strengthening scrutiny at a local level. I expect to release further details in the coming weeks. I want to be clear though, the action plan alone will not solve the systemic issues faced by black communities in our city or indeed our country. Work to tackle structural inequality needs to happen across the public sector in London and in the UK. I have had a longstanding commitment to tackling inequality, for example, through our Workforce Integration Network, aiming to tackle inequality in the labour market and through our COVID-19 recovery work, which puts equality and inclusion at the centre of this approach.

Unmesh Desai: Thank you for that answer, MrMayor. I am glad that you have said you are not complacent. Look, there are two issues here. One is London of course needs more police, but as Assembly MemberLenDuvall said earlier, it is about how we are policed. My supplementary questions really are on the issues of how Londoners are policed. MrMayor, you talked about a more representative police force in London. Whilst the situation has considerably improved over the last few decades, our police office remains significantly unrepresentative of the police itself. As part of the work to improve confidence in the MPS, how are you seeking to increase BAME representation in the force, particularly black African Londoners and black African Caribbean Londoners in the force, especially given the current police officer recruitment drive? Equally important is attention being paid to ensuring that the force retains its officers once they have been recruited and also holds on to existing officers.

Sadiq Khan: Chair, can I thank the AssemblyMember for his really important points and questions? There is some good news, which is we have record numbers of black officers in the MPS. There is some good news in relation to the new recruits; there is a high percentage of BAME officers coming through. Overall we have 15% of our officers who are BAME. Of the new recruits, it is a higher percentage. A key thing there is not just to recruit, but as you said, to retain and for them to progress. It is how we manage that talent, and actually it is in all of our interests for our police service to better reflect the city that it seeks to police.
There are a number of things we are doing. The way we recruit is very important, how we look after our officers, the welfare. SusanHall [AM] referred to the abuse received by black officers. That cannot be allowed to be tolerated, so the welfare is really important. I take it very seriously, as does the Deputy Mayor for Policing and Crime, as indeed do the MPS. Any ideas that the Assembly Member has from his long experience in this area, I am more than happy to listen.

Unmesh Desai: Thank you, MrMayor. You also talked about police tactics as part of the review that is going to be undertaken. I think it should be acknowledged that stop and search can be an important tool in tackling violent crime, which is one of - if not the most - the most significant issues facing us in our city. However, there appears to be an ongoing community and engagement issue with the MPS, who have been conducting stop and searches and employing certain tactics in specific areas. Is improving the way the MPS communicates and connects positively with the communities it is here to serve something you are seeking to address as part of this work?

Sadiq Khan: Yes, it is. Part of this is talking candidly with Londoners about some of the concerns they have and how we seek to address them. A big concern from Londoners is the high levels of violent crime we have seen over the last six or seven years. There are some communities that suffer that more. There are complex causes of violent crime: deprivation, poverty, lack of opportunity. These are all some of the reasons why violent crime can increase, so tackling the causes, but also the consequences, which is why these parts of London with high levels of violent crime are seeing greater police activity from the Violent Crime Task Force and other policing as well. That has a knock-on consequence which you can see in these parts of London, high levels of Londoners being stopped and searched and there being an interventionist approach from the police. That can lead to problems if, for example, the tools that police have are seen to be being used in a disproportionate way. That is why the police have got to be cognisant of always being alert to concerns around disproportionality. You have highlighted some of them, stop and search, another one is tasers. That is one of the things we hope the action plan will look into.

Unmesh Desai: MrMayor, finally I know that you will, as I do, appreciate that there have been a number of landmark reports and reviews into racism in the police service and the criminal justice system over the years, Scarman in 1981, Macpherson in 1991, the Holyrood inquiry in Hackney that I had some involvement with. There has been progress. It would be churlish to deny that there has been no progress, but I hope you will agree that there is still a lot more work to do.
What I want to know from you, MrMayor, is how will the action plan make a tangible difference to improve relations between the MPS and London’s black communities? What is going to be new about this action plan? People have had all these inquiries in the past. As [The Rt Hon] DavidLammy[MP] said in Parliament, at least eight to ten reviews in the last few years, some 70 to 100 recommendations waiting to be implemented. MrMayor, we need a sense of urgency here.
On one hand - and this is an important point for me to make - you have the Commissioner of the MPS, CressidaDick, saying that there is no institutional racism within the MPS. She said that in a House of Commons Select Committee the other day. On the other hand, you have got the Chief Constable of the West Midlands apologising to the black communities of the West Midlands for the way that they have been policed. He could only have done so with the knowledge and authority of the Police and Crime Commissioner, your counterpart in the West Midlands, DavidJamieson.
What is your thinking about this situation, the message being put out by the MPS, the message being put out by the West Midlands? Where is the sense of urgency that I hope you will inject into this debate and what is going to be new about this review that will impart confidence in Londoners, black, white, brown, no matter what colour or nationality they are?

Sadiq Khan: I think over the last few years you said 70. There has been more than 200 recommendations made by the four reviews, the Lammy review being just one of four reviews. We wait to hear details of the Government’s commission announced by BorisJohnson [Prime Minister] recently. I am not clear who the chair of that commission is going to be, what the terms of reference are going to be or who the members are. We cannot wait for the Government to implement recommendations made or to undertake their commission, so we are having to go alone and go fast. We have already undertaken many of the workshops that I know Sophie[Linden, Deputy Mayor for Policing and Crime] and Debbie [Weekes-Bernard, Deputy Mayor for Social integration, Social Mobility and Community Engagement] have talked about with the Assembly. They have agreed to come and talk to the Assembly about some of the action plan.
It would be wrong for me to pre-empt the recommendations from the action plan, so I think the challenge you pose is a good challenge. It is one that you pose from your experience as a Londoner, as somebody who works with some of the communities who lack confidence. One of the things we will have to do is to ensure that the action plan can address the issue of trust and confidence that you so articulately highlighted.

Unmesh Desai: Thank you, MrMayor.

London Leadership

Tony Devenish: On 21st June 2020 you told the Sunday Times that you had “not been providing proper leadership“ as Mayor of London. While you have our sympathies, do you not think you should have notified the London Assembly and shared this with the GLA Leadership and Londoners?

Sadiq Khan: Thank you, Chair. As Mayor of London, it is important for me to set an example. That includes being open and honest about my mental health because it can encourage others who might be struggling to seek out the help and support they need. I have done this in the past and throughout the crisis.
None of us is superhuman. We all have our good days and our bad days. This is especially true in the middle of a pandemic when we are all finding it tough and have all been asked to make huge sacrifices to help save lives, from staying indoors and working at home to limiting outdoor exercise and our interactions with friends, family members and loved ones. I make no apology for acknowledging the toll lockdown has had on Londoners’ mental health, including my own. It would be irresponsible and dishonest to pretend that this period has been easy for people living in our city.
I am pleased to say that many Londoners, including City Hall staff as well, have thanked me for speaking so openly about this issue. I will continue to do so because real leadership is about representing people and giving voice to their feelings, not being some kind of alpha male who constantly seeks to parade their virility. I am really proud of my work supporting Thrive London and the Good Thinking app.
We are all human. We all have days when we are not firing on all cylinders, as I am sure even AssemblyMemberDevenish can confirm, but I can say with confidence that there has not been a single day during this crisis when this administration and my team have not provided the leadership London needs.

Tony Devenish: Thank you, MrMayor, for the way you answered that question. I respect you for that, sir, but I do have to ask you. This is the biggest crisis our country has faced since World War Two and you told The Sunday Times what you said. You did not tell the London Assembly. Why was that, please?

Sadiq Khan: I am quite surprised at this question because all of us will have days or periods when we have physical ill health. We will all have periods when we have family bereavements or other issues. Similarly, we all have periods when we are not 100%. There has been no criticism in the past in relation to those, which is human nature. There appears to be a criticism based upon me being honest about how I am feeling.
I will make this point respectfully. This is one of the reasons that there is stigma around mental health and people talking about mental health. One of my roles, I believe, as a politician is to follow the advice of a previous Prime Minister, which is to use our role to educate people. I am not hesitating in my role in talking about mental health in relation to how I feel.
The reality is I have not taken time off because I have not needed to. None of us needs to always medicalise our physical ailments and similarly we do not need to always medicalise our mental ailments but talking about them can be a big way of addressing them. I am not sure whether the criticism is that I should be sharing with the Assembly every day I am feeling a bit poorly. The reality is that me talking about it has encouraged others to talk about it and I will continue to do so, even if it leads to criticism from Conservatives.

Tony Devenish: For clarity, MrMayor, I am not criticising you for having the guts to talk about it. I am congratulating you, but what I am asking you is that during the largest crisis since World War Two you would inform the Assembly rather than The Sunday Times in a piece. Frankly, many people have approached me and said that they were amazed by the way you broached this subject, sir. It is the way you have done it, not the fact that you have done it.
Can I finally ask you: do you feel that if you were clearly unwell at times, you should have stood down temporarily, put your Deputy Mayor in charge and informed the Assembly?

Sadiq Khan: You see, what you do not understand is that your question illustrates one of the reasons why people are scared to talk about their mental health. You assume that it automatically makes someone unfit to do the job they are doing. One of the reasons why people in places of work across our city and across our country do not talk about it with their line managers or their other colleagues is because people like you say that it means you are unfit to work.
All of us have periods when we are not firing on all cylinders. All of us, if we are honest, are not always at 100%. I will not stop being honest with Londoners about the fact that we should talk about mental health.
I make this point, Tony. My age cohort, those aged between 25 and 49, is the largest group of people who, I am afraid, kill themselves because of mental ill health. It is the sort of attitude that leads to the question being asked and leads to men not having the confidence to do so. Three quarters of people who kill themselves are men. I am talking about it - albeit there are people who would criticise me - and I am going to carry on doing so.

Tony Devenish: I will leave it there, Chair. By the way, I did not criticise you, MrMayor. I asked a question. Thank you.

Systemic bias in the Metropolitan Police Service

Siân Berry: Are Londoners right to be concerned about bias in the Metropolitan Police Service?

Sadiq Khan: Police officers in London are doing a vital job during extremely challenging times to keep our community safe. This includes working tirelessly to tackle and reduce the level of violent crime in our city.
I take all allegations of bias and racial profiling extremely seriously and have raised the issue with the MPS. It is clear that far too many Londoners still feel that they do not have full trust and confidence in our police service, particularly when it comes to the use of stop and search. As Mayor, I am committed to making the police truly representative of our city and ensuring that it gains the trust and confidence of all communities it exists to serve so that every Londoner, regardless of background or postcode, can feel safe and protected.
On the issue of stop and search, I am aware that when it is done the right way many Londoners are in favour of its use in order to keep us safe. However, I also know full well the negative impact that the widespread use of stop and search can have. Done badly, it makes it much harder to tackle crime by reducing community trust in the police and by discouraging key witnesses from reporting crime and providing evidence, let alone joining the police service.
Growing up in south London, I lost track of the number of times I was stopped and searched. I remember the anger and humiliation I felt when, yet again, I was stopped for seemingly nothing other than the colour of my skin. I know this experience is shared by many black Londoners.
As a result of these personal experiences, I have been working with the police since I became Mayor to improve transparency and accountability. We have rolled out body-worn video so that both the police and communities can have more confidence in their interactions. We will ensure that stop and search should always be intelligence-led and carried out fairly and with respect.
I want to assure Londoners that I am committed to closely scrutinising any disproportionality. That is why I have commissioned the Deputy Mayor for Policing and Crime [Sophie Linden] and the Deputy Mayor for Communities [Social Integration, Social Mobility and Community Engagement, Debbie Weekes-Bernard] to work with the police and communities to draw up an action plan for improving transparency and accountability, which will help there to be better trust and confidence.

Siân Berry: Thank you very much, MrMayor. I am really grateful for everything you have just said. We are being briefed by the Deputy Mayors on their action plan as well. I am glad this problem is being taken seriously by you and the Deputy Mayors.
However, I am concerned it will still not be taken seriously enough by the Commissioner [of Police of the Metropolis, Dame Cressida Dick DBE QPM]. When I questioned her about the disproportionate use of coronavirus penalties issued to black Londoners, she essentially said that she did not accept the problem and would not be going back to officers to train them to address any unconscious biases they might have. This does not seem like someone who is open to adopting the actions that come out of the action plan.
Do you agree that the key to winning back public confidence is going to be admitting and accepting the problem and taking responsibility within the police?

Sadiq Khan: Different Londoners and different communities have different levels of trust and confidence in the police service. The point I am trying to get across to all Londoners is that it affects the ability of the police to keep our city safe and it affects our city’s safety if one part of London does not have confidence in the police. As I said, if you are stopped and searched in a way you think is unfair today and you then go home and tell your family, how can we expect tomorrow or next week you to be a witness, report a crime or even join the police service? That is why it is really important for us to understand that all of us benefit from there being improved levels of trust and confidence.
We have to accept that for some Londoners one of the reasons for lower levels of trust and confidence is their view that there has been a disproportionate use of stop and search, but the empirical data confirms, as you are aware, that if you are black Londoner you are more likely to be stopped and searched than if you are from a different ethnic background. That should be a source of concern.

Siân Berry: Thank you very much. One thing I have noticed is that quite often when we ask the Commissioner about the problems with stop and search, she relies quite heavily on there being what she says is a very low number of complaints. Through talking to constituents as part of my case work, I have seen evidence of young black men who are repeatedly stopped by police, treated badly or rudely, and who are very reluctant to make any formal reports or complaints about this. They do not want to prolong contact with the police and that is completely understandable, but it means that we do not get this full picture.
Would you now today send a message that encourages more young people to come forward to register complaints when they feel mistreated?

Sadiq Khan: Yes. I would say to all Londoners: if you are unhappy with the experience that you receive from the police or actually any other public servant - it could be a politician, it could be a doctor, it could be a teacher or a police officer or others - please report it. Unless you report it, no action can be taken.
The reason why it is important in the context of the police is that all police officers have more powers over citizens than other members of society. With that power comes a responsibility in relation to checks and balances. It leads to better policing but also better trust and confidence. How we police the police is very important.
I would encourage any Londoner who feels aggrieved about the way they have been treated in their interaction to report it, if for no other reason that it can help us see if there is an issue that needs to be dealt with through training or what some people call ‘customer practice’. It is really important that you report that. You may think it is trivial or you may think it is not going to be taken seriously. The police do take complaints made seriously, as indeed does the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC).

Siân Berry: Thank you very much. I am sure that will help Londoners and give them the confidence to come forward and raise these issues because it is important we get the full picture. Thank you very much, MrMayor. That is all of my time today.

Impact of COVID-19 on housing completions

Murad Qureshi: What has been the impact of COVID-19 pandemic lockdown on your housing completions, and how will that impact the current Homes for Londoners funding programme?

Sadiq Khan: Since becoming Mayor, I have made significant progress in delivering genuinely affordable homes with record-breaking numbers of homes started. In my first term, we started over 40% more than my predecessor managed in his entire second term. I will ensure that the COVID-19 crisis does not jeopardise this progress. Early indications suggest that completions are only at a quarter of the levels expected since lockdown as sites have had to close and critical social-distancing measures were put in place. I called on the Government to extend the affordable homes programme and am pleased the Government have listened to my calls and granted a one-year extension. However, those who claim the additional funding from the Government beyond that £4.8 billion settlement is not necessary could not be more wrong. Generally forecasts suggest that construction output could fall 34% in 2020 compared with 2019 while Build UK found that almost 60% of construction suppliers suspended operations due to COVID-19. These are cross-sector challenges, which is why I am calling on the Government to heed the Housing Delivery Taskforce call for a rapid £5 million cash injection to kickstart London’s housing sector.

Murad Qureshi: Thank you, MrMayor, for your response. What prompted my question was the Financial Times (FT) report that London housebuilders were expecting completions down by about 30% and that they will only be halfway to recovery in 2021. I am also glad that the Government has extended the deadline for the affordable housing programme and provided some flexibility to housing providers, without any further action at all.
Can you set out the risks to the affordable housing delivery in London if Government does not meet your asks from your Housing Taskforce?

Sadiq Khan: Thank you for your question and you get these issues from your economic experience, but basically even though the Government has changed the order on stamp duty, which may help some people buy properties, what they are not doing is helping the developers, the construction industry, housing associations and Londoners, with new home building. Because the market has slowed down for obvious reasons and we are now facing huge unemployment and potentially recession that could have an impact on the market. The way the cross-subsidy model works for housing associations is, because the grant is small, for them to build sufficient numbers of affordable homes they need to build market-value homes for sale to subsidise the affordable homes. That cross-subsidy model will not work when we have a slowdown in the housing market and a recession.
However, it is a good opportunity for the Government to help house building, to help Londoners to be able to get their foot on the ladder, whether it is social housing, affordable housing, affordable rents or market value rents, and so I am asking the Government to look at the recommendations made by the taskforce, give us the support we need financially, which will support the construction industry, will create jobs, will reduce the housing benefit bill, and it will provide houses for Londoners. There is no downside to them doing so. By the way, the Chair of the National Infrastructure Commission, [Sir] JohnArmitt [CBE], agrees we need more social housing. [Sir] Oliver Letwin, when he did a report for DeHavilland agrees, that it is a good way to support the housing market during this difficult time.

Murad Qureshi: Indeed. In addition to your proposals, would you consider more intervention on sites with planning permission that have not yet begun where developments are at risk of stalling or becoming unviable? You have covered some of the ground there already but I do think with sites with planning permission for office blocks, for example, working with partners to convert them into affordable housing schemes is something we need to entertain.

Sadiq Khan: Absolutely. We went into the details relating to the Government’s plans around speeding up homes. We are concerned it could lead to poor quality development homes, you will be aware of some of the examples, the conversions have been awful, so we have to make sure that we do not use the opportunities for poor quality housing. At the same time it is really important for us to use the opportunity to pivot potential permissions that will not be actioned because of the market, but also homes that are built for sale that cannot be sold, if it is possible for us to buy them at cost and to make them available to Londoners who need them as well. There are opportunities there if the Treasury and MHCLG work with us. By the way the taskforce had representatives from across London’s housing sector, it was not simply City Hall and housing associations, it was others involved in this area as well.

Murad Qureshi: Thank you very much, MrMayor.

Navin Shah: Next question is from Assembly Member --

Susan Hall: Chair, I am sorry to interrupt. My name was mentioned by AssemblyMemberArnold. Can I just make a correction, please? I said that a portion of these attacks came from the Black Lives Matter protesters themselves. I have had my office check this out. We had a very good exchange, the Mayor and I, we both agree on the situation and it is very unhelpful when another Assembly Member comes in and misquotes me. Thank you very much.

Navin Shah: Thank you. Your comment is noted.

Fifteen-minute neighbourhoods as part of London’s recovery

Caroline Russell: Recovering with a greener economy depends on making London work in a different, more local way. What are you doing to plan for 15-minute neighbourhoods where Londoners can live, work and access services within an easy walk of their home?

Sadiq Khan: My London Plan sets out a framework for the growth. I want Londoners to be able to access thriving high streets, attractive open spaces and good quality jobs and to be able to get there safely and easily by sustainable means, including walking and cycling. I want all parts of our city, not just central London, to have successful economies and to see the benefits of growth. This approach will be even more important as we recover from the devastating impacts of COVID-19. Londoners are spending more time closer to home. They want their neighbourhoods to be welcoming, healthy and sustainable, not clogged up with traffic and pollution. London’s recovery must be an inclusive green recovery that enables all Londoners to walk and cycle around greener neighbourhoods and support their local high streets.
I am taking bold steps to make this a reality. So far our Streetspace programme has funded over 200 town centre improvements, over 450 school streets and nearly 65 cycling schemes alongside over 175 low traffic neighbourhoods. This is alongside our Low Emission Neighbourhoods, which have invested over £10million into local areas. We have also provided funding and support for local partnerships to prepare high street recovery plans, existing Good Growth Fund projects and reorienting their £35million investment to foster recovery in key locations and our Greener City Fund is supporting over 200 of the green projects to approved local neighbourhoods. At its inaugural meeting, the London Recovery Board agreed to deliver a greener, cleaner London, to address economic growth and support London’s economies whilst tackling the climate emergency.

Caroline Russell: Thank you, MrMayor. I particularly appreciate the fact that you are talking about these Streetspace measures to help Londoners living in all parts of our city. Fifteen-minute neighbourhoods, with everything you need for daily life within a 15-minute of home, will make Londoners’ lives better, but it needs space, especially with the ongoing need for physical distancing. First of all thinking about space for work, London has the highest rate of home working in the country and people have done really well in providing offices in their bedrooms or at their kitchen tables, but sometimes workers need spaces they can go to when, for instance, the building work outside is too noisy or their internet fails.
Will you work with boroughs to provide local bookable quiet spaces for working while people are still having to keep working from home?

Sadiq Khan: Yes, thank you. You raise a really important point. The short answer is yes. Just to give you some good news, we are already out working with the boroughs to do this. One of the reasons I was keen for the Chair of London Councils, PeterJohn [OBE, leader of Southwark Council], to co-chair the recovery work was because councils have a huge role to play. We are also using TfL to see if we are able to provide local office space because, you are right, if you live in a shared home, it is difficult for your bedroom to be an office as well. There are opportunities here as well, which we want to take advantage of.

Caroline Russell: That is really good to hear, Mr Mayor, thank you. Londoners are not going to be rushing back to those tall lift-dependent glass towers in central London anytime soon and that ongoing need for distancing is going to mean a lot of us are going to be working from home for a while yet.
What about space for the local economy? Having space to expand into the road will help restaurants, pubs, cafes, and even community spaces, to open up. It is really good to see NorthcoteRoad in Battersea open to people and covered in tables and chairs at weekends and I understand TfL supported this. Are you planning anything similar for other roads that you control?

Sadiq Khan: Firstly, can I just put my thanks to the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government (MHCLG), and [The Rt Hon] RobertJenrick [MP, Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government], on this issue has worked very closely with us. I spoke to him a number of weeks ago, I explained to him the issues around licensing and planning rules and to give him credit he listened and the flexibility you talked about has enabled these businesses, who desperately need custom to open outdoors, which is just frankly lovely in summer, and both LéonieCooper [AM] and myself know NorthcoteRoad very well, so we are grateful for the name check. Yes, we are working with councils and businesses to find more of these openings. It is really important we use the opportunity of summer to allow these businesses to again flourish and thrive safely. Any ideas you have I am always happy to listen to and one of the reasons again why it is important to have the Chair of London Councils, Peter John, co-chairing with me this work on recovery, is to work with councils who are crucial as part of the partnership.

Caroline Russell: Finally, what about space for growing? Access to green space has been so important to Londoners all through the lockdown. Many Londoners live in flats without access to a garden. Will you support communities who want to set up green growing spaces in parking bays, like parklets?

Sadiq Khan: I am going to have a look at other communities and how they funded little communities in relation to some of their tree-planting programmes and plant programmes. Some of the ugly concrete parking spaces can be greener quite easily and quite cheaply, which is good for the environment but also pleasant for those of us who walk past these sites and I am more than happy to support, where we can, community groups to do this great work. By the way, it is a really good way of neighbours getting to know each other who otherwise would not. The benefits are huge. You will have been to many of these groups where friendships are formed between people from different socioeconomic backgrounds, different ethnic groups, become mates and they have a common purpose and it creates a sense of civic pride as well as the basic benefits in relation to photosynthesis with more green as well, therefore I am more than happy to do this piece of work. Again often small sums of money can have a huge impact.

Caroline Russell: Thank you, yes, and certainly recognising that it is that community organising, a street getting together to organise a planter or a street event is what brings everyone together more than the end result; kind of that community activity. Thank you, MrMayor, I am out of time.

Crossrail

Caroline Pidgeon: When will the central section of Crossrail be open for passengers?

Sadiq Khan: We are doing everything we can to get this railway open as soon as it is safe to do so. This is a top priority for our new Commissioner AndyByford along with the safe re-emergence of London’s transport system from the impact of COVID-19.
As with all big construction projects, physical work in the stations and the tunnels had to stop for a period during the height of the pandemic. Crossrail Ltd is still working through all the implications of this and is reprogramming the remaining work given the continued need for some social distancing in what is a constrained working environment. The Chair of the Crossrail project TonyMeggs [CB] and the Chief Executive MarkWild are resolutely focused on opening the central operating section as soon as possible whilst also mitigating the challenges posed by coronavirus. The Crossrail Ltd executive have made it clear to me that safety remains paramount across the entire project. Social distancing protocols are being observed across all sites now that physical works have resumed. Dynamic testing of the train control systems in the tunnels has also restarted, which will allow multiple trains to operate in the tunnels to simulate the Elizabeth line timetable.
There is clearly a significant way to go until we are able to fully transition Crossrail into the Elizabeth line. The major implications of the global pandemic means that the project team is currently undertaking a rigorous review of the project schedule. They are seeking to optimise works and recover time lost. It is important this work is done properly and receives the appropriate validation, including by the Crossrail board, to ensure it is accurate ahead of any public commitments. I expect Crossrail Ltd to provide an update on this work and any subsequent updates on its finances to sponsors at the July and August [2020] meetings of the Crossrail board.
Along with the joint sponsor of this project, the Department for Transport (DfT), I remain determined to keep Londoners and AssemblyMembers up to date as much as possible regarding the impact on project timelines and costs. As soon as it is possible to share accurate assessment of the impact, Crossrail and the sponsors will do so.

Caroline Pidgeon: Thank you for your response. I am sure you will agree with me that after such huge delays and the previous promises that the central section would open in December2018, everyone wants some clear answers.
Do you agree with a statement from TonyMeggs, Chair of Crossrail, just six weeks ago at a TfL Board meeting when he publicly made the claim to “meet or beat” the revised opening date of the summer of 2021?

Sadiq Khan: First of all, I want to thank you for your role as a critical friend of Crossrail in relation to scrutiny.
What Tony was doing was illustrating the can-do attitude that the Crossrail team has. My concern, as is yours, is that that optimism bias does not lead to expectations that cannot be met. Tony was not doing that, to be fair to him. He was just trying to make the point that they want to make up lost ground.
We will have a clearer idea, Caroline, in the July Crossrail board meeting. I will share with you - and indeed the Assembly and Londoners - as soon as I have that information what that is. We will have a better idea after the July and August Crossrail board meetings. You will be aware that at the TfL Board meeting in July we will have a new budget, which will hopefully reflect some of the stuff we learn from Crossrail.

Caroline Pidgeon: Do you agree - because this is since COVID had happened - that he said not only to meet but to potentially beat the opening of summer next year, yet we know there have been delays in the works? Do you agree with him? It is a simple question.

Sadiq Khan: I am not quite sure how we get to beat that target, bearing in mind the delay in dynamic testing. It started, COVID happened, it stopped and it has restarted. You will be aware of the dynamic testing that leads to a trial opening and that needs to run in for some time. I am not quite clear how we beat it, Caroline, but that is one of the reasons why we are waiting to see what the July Crossrail board tells us.

Caroline Pidgeon: MrMayor, when you dig down and look at possible opening dates for Crossrail, the real issue is the progress on key milestones. Trial running still has to take place. When do you think trial running will start?

Sadiq Khan: That is a good question. The advice I have received is that some of the reliability that the trial running is testing can be done during dynamic testing, which means it is possible theoretically - I am not saying this will happen - for there to be sufficiently good dynamic testing to shorten the period of trial running before opening.
I want it to be this year. It was originally going to be around September. That may be pushed back because of the delay in dynamic testing. We will know more after the July board meeting. We will definitely know more after the August board meeting. As soon as I know, I will share that with the Assembly.

Caroline Pidgeon: Thank you. The most recent independent consultant’s report on Crossrail, which was published only last week on TfL’s website says, I quote, “Crossrail Ltd has failed to achieve a programme that has achievable milestones and dependable forecast dates”. With experts making such claims - and these are your independent experts - I believe it is vital that we have some full answers.
You have said several times you have a July board meeting. Perhaps after that meeting you will be able to write to me and confirm when trial running will commence, how long you anticipate it taking and when down to the actual month Crossrail will finally open. That is what Londoners want and that is what we all want: to get this railway open. Will you agree to write to me after the July board meeting with that information so that we can get this railway back on track?

Sadiq Khan: Chair, I am very happy to write to not just Caroline but the entire Assembly after the July board meeting to give a summary of what we have been told at that board meeting and, similarly, I also undertake to write to the Assembly after the August board meeting as well to make sure you are fully sighted on what we are being told by the Crossrail team.

Caroline Pidgeon: And with a month when the railway will open, please. Thank you very much.

Navin Shah: Yes, thank you, MrMayor, for that commitment. Please do write to Assembly Members following the board meeting as just indicated.
Colleagues, there is a change of running order now. We are going to swap places, so to say, in terms of questions.

LFB budget situation

Andrew Dismore: What impact on LFB’s post-Grenfell and post-HMICFRS transformation plans will the shortfall in GLA group funding have?

Sadiq Khan: The COVID-19 pandemic has had an unprecedented impact on our city and you will be aware that the GLA Group faces a forecast £493million budget shortfall for the next two years. Ministers have so far failed to provide special additional funding to local and regional authorities across the UK to compensate for lost funding. I therefore put in a place a proposal that will allow the GLA Group to make the savings required should the Government not stand up and provide us with the support we need.
I am acting to protect the budgets of our most important frontline services, including the LFB, which together with the MPS will be asked to make the smallest percentage of savings across the GLA Group. I have asked the LFB to find £10million of savings in 2020/21 and £15million in 2021/22, but finding the savings in a way that will not affect the frontline services they provide to Londoners. I am well aware that the LFB has been living with a legacy of more than £100million of cuts made by the previous Mayor, which did affect frontline services.
The London Fire Commissioner is working through how those savings could be made and the impact this will have on our efforts to transform the LFB in the aftermath of the Grenfell Tower fire. The Commissioner has been clear that he needs to ensure that he can continue to improve training and equipment and make other changes to the way London’s fire and rescue service operates. This includes improving the fire safety in more buildings, including high-rise property, and preparing for major incidents such as acts of terrorism. It is vital this work continues to ensure the recommendations from Phase1 of the Grenfell Tower Inquiry and the findings of Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Constabulary and Fire & Rescue Services (HMICFRS) report are properly implemented.

Andrew Dismore: Thank you for that, MrMayor. Coming hard on the heels of the highly critical Grenfell Inquiry first report, last autumn you said:
“The results of the LFB HMICFRS inspection was simply not good enough and it is important that changes are made to address the issues raised as quickly as possible. The London Fire Commissioner has identified what needs to be done, including new equipment such as radios, breathing apparatus, specialist vehicles, including 64-metre aerial ladders, urgent training to raise standards on incident command and blue light appliance driving, new pursuit of tactics in training for high-rise firefighting, community outreach, improved fire safety work and youth engagement.”
A long list. In a mayoral decision last month, the cost of this vital Fire Brigade Transformation Delivery Plan was reported as being a £4.1million estimated ongoing cost of delivery. How is this money going to be found with the proposed £25million cut in LFB’s budget?

Sadiq Khan: I think your question has articulated the perfect storm, as I say, in terms of negative connotations that the LFB could face. It has been asked to make savings, it has been asked to transform itself and it also has to fulfil the requirements of not just Grenfell part1 of the inquiry, but also the HMICFRS report and also future Government legislation. The Commissioner is right to alert you and others of some of the concerns he has. We are going to work closely with the LFB and lobby the Government so these savings do not need to be made. It is important to make sure that the new Transformation Director is given the support she needs to make the changes and improvements they have got to make. I think your question articulates the real challenge there is going to be. What your question did not mention was this comes on top of the £100million of cuts made before I became Mayor.

Andrew Dismore: Thank you for that, because I was going to come on to that next. In 2016 you commissioned the AnthonyMayer independent review to the LFB’s funding after [The Rt Hon] BorisJohnson’s [MP, former Mayor of London] draconian cuts to fire stations, fire engines and firefighters. MrMayer’s report was unequivocal. He said the LFB could not shoulder any further funding reductions, “if it is to have sufficient resources to meet the challenges of the future and to keep Londoners safe”. Since then, of course we have seen the post-Grenfell legislation as well as the two reports, which will expand the LFB’s enforcement role. The new regulations are already bringing more buildings into the regulatory and enforcement regime, yet this expansion is barely funded.
The LFB already had a significant budget gap before this latest crisis and cuts of this magnitude cannot be achieved without affecting the frontline response, can they, as Mayer indicated? Are the average London-wide six and eight-minute response times for first and second fire engines now going to be at risk, jeopardising the lives and property of Londoners?

Sadiq Khan: Thanks for your question. You have been scrutinising some of these cuts made by the previous Mayor, so you know about them very well. There are no plans to change those standards you referred to, but you are right to remind me and remind Londoners about the challenges the LFB faces simply in the context of more than 7,000 tall buildings in London. There are only 11,000 across the country; most of them are in London. Bearing in mind the lack of confidence in the building environment because of Grenfell and what it has shown, these are big challenges. What we cannot afford to have is front line reductions in services, so there are no plans to change the standard, but also one of the reasons why I have said that the smallest amount of savings should be made in the LFB is for the reasons that you have said.

Andrew Dismore: OK, thank you.

GLA Finances

Joanne McCartney: Local and regional authorities across the country are in financial difficulty due to the COVID-19 crisis. Your budget guidance estimates that without government assistance the GLA group will have to find savings of up to £500million. What will this mean for Londoners?

Sadiq Khan: Can I apologise to those for whom I am now not frozen? They will be able to see me and so I cannot please everyone.
Thank you for the question. COVID-19 and the resulting economic downturn is having a massive impact on finances across the GLA Group and also across all 33 local authorities in London. Unless the Government provides additional grant support for the reduction in revenues from TfL fares, sales, fees and charges as well as business rates and council tax it could have a devastating impact across local services in London and indeed elsewhere in England. London boroughs have estimated revenue shortfalls and spending pressures approaching £1.9billion this year according to analysis by London Councils.
In terms of the GLA, the current best estimate is that the reductions in revenues compared to our budgeted allocations will be around £493million across this financial year and the next, as set out in my budget guidance published on 26June. The Communities Secretary announced some additional support for local authorities on 2July, covering a proportion of their revenue losses from sales, fees and charges and also allowing authorities to spread their 2020/21 business rates and council tax deficits over the following three budget years. While we still await more details, these new proposals will not be anywhere near sufficient. I have asked for the GLA functional bodies to come up with their plans to deliver the savings required through their formal budget submissions for 2020/21 in late November. This includes savings in both this financial year and next. Extensive discussions will also take place before then, including how best to use the reserves I have prudently established to help reduce the impact on Londoners. I will set out the final details of my plans to deliver savings required in my 2021/22 budget consultation document in December.

Joanne McCartney: Thank you, MrMayor. As you have rightly said, this is not a party-political issue, councils and authorities of all political persuasions are similarly affected. You have touched on this already, but were you happy with the Chancellor’s statement last week and do you think it delivered what London needed?

Sadiq Khan: I do not want to breach confidences of who they were, but I know colleagues across the Metro Nine, but also council leaders from different parties were hoping that the Chancellor would announce some support either regionally or locally to authorities to support them. He did not do so, which is a real source of concern, because we are being told to wait for the spending review, until December, hoping he announces something then. The problem is the council tax that all of us use to provide services has fallen off a cliff edge, as indeed have business rates. It demonstrates the Government not understanding the sheer scale of the challenge facing us and it will inevitably lead to what I call a new era of austerity.

Joanne McCartney: Thank you. Of course the Chancellor did announce some financial programmes. He announced, for example, the Kickstart scheme to help young people into employment, but it strikes me that both schemes are best delivered at regional and local level, perhaps with the GLA co-ordinating those schemes. Do you think this crisis highlights the need for further devolution to London? You, as Mayor, with your links to employers and local communities are really best placed to direct a lot of that funding and those new schemes.

Sadiq Khan: I think if you speak to leaders of councils, local enterprise partnerships (LEPs) and mayoralties, combined authorities across the country, they all agree in relation to the issue of skills - which is what this is about - are best designed and delivered locally rather than civil servants in Whitehall, with the best will in the world. Actually, councils in London know their communities far better than civil servants in Whitehall, as indeed do leaders across Greater Manchester, Liverpool, Tees Valley, West Midlands, etc. I think this is a missed opportunity from the Government. The Government should be letting go far more. Government politicians get the devolution agenda. I worry civil servants, particularly in the Treasury and Department for Work and Pensions (DWP), do not. What I say generally - it is not a party-political point - to the Government is to make sure that civil servants understand that actually devolution leads to better results across the country.

Joanne McCartney: Thank you.

Electric vehicles

David Kurten: Given the United Nations’ recent warning about the devastating environmental and social effects of mining minerals for electric vehicle batteries, how have you modified your transport policies?

https://news.un.org/en/story/2020/06/1067272

Sadiq Khan: Can I thank the AssemblyMember for raising this important question as well? I am very concerned about the reported social, ethical and environmental impacts of making lithium-ion batteries for electric vehicles.
Motorised traffic is overwhelmingly responsible for the greatest environmental challenges we face as a city. Diesel and petrol vehicles have a devastating impact on Londoners and our planet, stunting their children’s lungs, leading to thousands of premature deaths and changing our climate. I want 80% of our trips to made by walking, cycling and public transport by 2041, but some essential journeys will still need to be made by private vehicles and my ambition is that all new cars and vans registered in London will be zero-emission by 2030.
While London is leading the way in its ambitious plans to switch to zero-emission vehicles, we need to make sure that the transition is ethical and sustainable. I agree with the recommendations of the United Nations (UN) report that has been referred to. The battery industry must diversify the range of materials it uses. It must use more sustainable mining techniques and recycle raw materials used in spent lithium-ion batteries.
I have written to the Chief Executive of the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders asking him to urgently explain what steps the United Kingdom (UK) automotive industry is taking to address these concerns and implement the UN recommendations. I have also written to Government Ministers.
I am aware progress has already been made with significant reductions in the amount of cobalt used in some lithium-ion batteries and certain types of batteries use no cobalt at all. Research is underway to identify alternative means of extracting lithium, for example, from seawater. The recycling industry is engaged in developing ways to recover as much of the raw materials from spent batteries as possible.
For GLA-procured vehicles, I have committed to ethical procurement in line with the Ethical Trading Initiative Base Code. TfL is a founding member of Electronics Watch, an independent monitoring organisation improving working conditions and preventing exploitation in the global electronics industry.
However, the battery and automotive industries must do more and act faster. I am pushing to ensure that lower-impact electric vehicle battery technology becomes available as quickly as possible. We must run our economic stimulus packages through a green lens and attach green string to bailouts. Any bailout for the automotive industry should require that the UN recommendations are met.

David Kurten: Thank you, MrMayor, for your answer. I know we may disagree on petrol vehicles and policy on that, but I do welcome what you said. Thank you for writing to the Government and some of the bodies that are in charge of this because it is something that does concern me, particularly a couple of things that were in the report like the use of child slave labour to mine cobalt in [The Democratic Republic of] the Congo. Much of the cobalt that is used in electric batteries does come from the Congo and 20% of it is produced in artisanal mines that use child slave labour.
I do welcome the fact that you say you are going to make sure and you have made sure that TfL does not procure any vehicles using cobalt or lithium that is sourced unethically, but if you are aiming to ensure that all new vehicles in London are electric by 2030 - I do not personally agree with that as an aim but that is what you say you want to do - how are you going to make sure that vehicles outside TfL do not use child slave labour to mine cobalt and do not take lithium from the area in Chile where most lithium is produced? It takes up huge amounts of water and has displaced local subsistence farmers from that area.

Sadiq Khan: Can I just say, Chair, through you that I agree with a lot of what has been said. This is a good example of where we can work together and there are things we share common ground with.
One of the reasons, AssemblyMemberKurten, why I have written to the Government is to see if the Government and City Hall can work together because you are right. Even if, let us assume the best-case scenario, and all the vehicles we procure are made in a way that is humane for the reasons you have said, the current system is inhumane in relation to the way the cobalt is dealt with, there are still those vehicles outside of our control that will clearly have used child labour and other breaches of human rights. That is why I want to work with the Government to see if we can impact the entire market. That is why I am saying, for example, are there strings we can attach to Government bailouts in relation to the automotive industry and are there other things we can do?
Some of it, I suspect, will be cross-border, working with countries across Europe and across the world. Where we may disagree is that I think the European Union (EU) will have a role to play. I know everything the EU does you think is not good, but this is a good example where the EU could have a role to play in relation to its procurement power.
Any ideas that you have I am really happy to listen to, but you pose a real challenge to me. How can I on the one hand say I want ethical electric vehicles and other reasons why it is good but on the other hand the source of these batteries is one that is inhumane? That is why, working with you and others, we are going to address this issue and take it seriously.

David Kurten: Thank you very much, MrMayor.

Public Order in London

Peter Whittle: Over the last month, I, like many other Londoners, have been increasingly concerned by images on social media of Metropolitan Police officers retreating from scenes of public disorder. Is the Mayor satisfied with the response of the Metropolitan Police to recent events on London’s streets?

Sadiq Khan: The past few months have presented massive challenges to the MPS. This includes the response to the COVID-19 pandemic and dealing with largescale gatherings during this time such as protests and unlicensed music events. Police officers have done a good job during these extremely difficult public order situations and I want to pay tribute to the officers who have been working so hard often in dangerous conditions to prevent disorder and to keep Londoners safe, all at a time when COVID-19 still presents such a serious threat. I am appalled that around 150 officers have been injured during this difficult period. These are the same officers who are in our communities day in and day out, tackling violence, protecting the vulnerable, and keeping the public safe. I have said it many times before but I must say it again now: violence against police officers will not be tolerated and the perpetrators will feel the full force of the law. I should say that policing large crowds can be complex and dangerous work but the officers are well trained for these situations. Public order commanders plan for each individual event based on the specific situation they are faced with and the available alternatives.

Peter Whittle: I take it from your answer that you are perfectly happy, then, with the situation?

Sadiq Khan: What situation?

Peter Whittle: Can I give you maybe two instances?

Sadiq Khan: Yes, please.

Peter Whittle: They were very widely shared on social media and then reported in the press, there was an incident just during the early June protests in London where there were two policemen running away from protesters down Buckingham Palace Road, they looked to be quite young protesters, but the police were actively running away from them. Then much more recently the White City Estate block party, as it is known, the police there en masse retreated. We have been talking this morning about confidence in the police and how it is declining, however we have been looking at it entirely through this prism of diversity in the police force. Surely you can see, MrMayor, that if you see police running away en masse or individually that does not inspire public confidence in them.

Sadiq Khan: What, with respect, you are in danger of doing is forming a conclusion based upon a snapshot of a short clip. What I do not want is our police officers being assaulted. What I do not want is our police officers in all situations going in fully kitted up in relation to an incident.
What the police do is rely upon experienced public order commanders, who are on the ground, and have operational independence to make decisions based upon individual circumstances. That means, for example, they will retreat if their personal safety is compromised and then return fully kitted up if need be. We are in danger of inadvertently becoming armchair commanders and what I would do is trust the police to have the right expertise to deal with each situation.

Peter Whittle: It is not just me, MrMayor. It was reported in the press. It is not just me being an armchair commander. If you see two policemen running away from teenagers you have to ask what have they been told to do, what have their commands been, maybe they are the wrong ones, because at the very time when we are possibly facing more social disorder there is a real sense among the public that the police simply are in retreat. The morale among many of the ordinary officers is very low. It is aimed very much at the upper echelon of the police. When we see this sort of thing, MrMayor, this is exactly the kind of thing that does not instil confidence.

Sadiq Khan: Your question highlighted the contradictions in your thinking. On the one hand you are criticising police officers and on the other hand complaining about low morale among police officers. The point I am trying to make to you --

Peter Whittle: No.

Sadiq Khan: You are. Your question quite clearly did.

Peter Whittle: No, it is not a contradiction. They are told what to do presumably by their seniors, right, they have to do it, they have to do those things, but they are told that might lead to what is obviously a real lowering of morale. The fact is the police appear now to much of the public to be frightened of their own shadows. This is the problem. Do you not even accept that, MrMayor?

Sadiq Khan: I do not agree with your diagnosis that the police are scared of their own shadow. My experience of the police is that the public order commanders we have in the MPS are some of the best in the country. The Commissioner and the Deputy Commissioner and the senior team, even their experience, they do not second-question what the operational command is doing on the ground because they realise that the commander on the ground is fully seized of all the information rather than senior police officers. Yet we have, in City Hall, Assembly Members who think they know more than the Commissioner and public order commanders. I respect your point of view; I just disagree with you that I, as the Mayor, can second-guess what an individual commander may be measuring up when it comes to an individual case.

Peter Whittle: No, because, MrMayor, it is not a question, of course I am not in the police, I do not have police experience, and this is ridiculous, but you are effectively the chief policeman in this city and the truth is that the culture now of the police appears apologetic, whether it is, for example, the Commissioner apologising to BiancaWilliams [British athlete] after having said that her officers did nothing wrong or police officers taking the knee and this kind of thing. This is the sort of thing that basically makes people feel uncertain that they can be protected and that the police are effectively doing their jobs.

Sadiq Khan: Just during the course of the last two hours, we have had assertions that the police can sometimes be too aggressive and we have had assertions from you that they sometimes are running away. It is clear the police cannot please the Assembly on either flank. I am quite clear that public order is what the question was about. Our commanders do a job where they have operational independence often in difficult situations where they are making split-second decisions.

Peter Whittle: No, MrMayor, you are --

Navin Shah: You are out of time now.

Peter Whittle: You are playing one Assembly Member off against the other --

Navin Shah: Assembly Member Whittle, you are out of time now.

Peter Whittle: A question: were you happy to see the retreat?

Navin Shah: Sorry, you are out of time. Thank you very much.

Education summer schemes

Jennette Arnold: Given the insufficient funding coming from Government, how will your funds and projects be supporting children across London over the summer to help them catch up on learning and support mental wellbeing?

Sadiq Khan: Our £70million Young Londoners Fund has already benefited over 110,000 young people and will continue to do so over the summer. Examples include in June I launched a socially distanced community support pilot in Hackney enabling young people from diverse backgrounds to reengage with physical activity while keeping safe. The London Legacy Development Corporation has moved its popular East Summer School online, 12 to 17-year-olds can learn creative skills with courses run by East Bank partners, including the BBC and UCL. Our Stepping Stones programme continues to support vulnerable young people in the transition from primary to secondary school. From September we will be expanding our London Lemon Buses programme to engage with Pupil Referral Units (PRU). As part of my commitment to supporting the mental health and wellbeing of children and young people, I am providing funding to help expand the London Good Thinking digital mental health and wellbeing services to young people aged between 13 and 18.

Jennette Arnold: Thank you, MrMayor, for that very informative answer. It is great to see all that is going on.
I have two follow-up questions for you, but before I put them can I, through you, MrMayor, thank Deputy and Statutory Mayor, Assembly Member McCartney for her very able leadership in support of children and young people, especially during the coronavirus lockdown, and the initiatives that she has led. Specifically, I am thinking of the London Learning at Home initiative and the use of the excellent London curriculum, which, if you do not know, you must get on there if you have any children at home. That has reached across the city to bring together free learning and cultural offers that children can access from home.
As ever, as an Assembly Member, what I am doing is I am going to ask for more. Given your statement this morning about the huge challenges we as a city are going to face because of unemployment, the pandemic continues, will you assure me that you will continue to lobby Government and to work with our colleagues in local government with educational institutions, you cannot take your foot off the pedal?

Sadiq Khan: First, thank you very much for the recognition of JoanneMcCartney [AM] and the brilliant work she does for the Assembly, but also as the Statutory Deputy Mayor, particularly with young people and particularly in this difficult time. You have hit the head on the nail in relation to the potential of Londoners, in relation to helping them fulfil that potential by providing a helping hand. That has to be the mission of City Hall and we should not take our foot off the gas, both in terms of lobbying the Government, but also finding the resources where we can in City Hall to support these young Londoners, particularly when we know, we have talked about it in this Mayor’s Question Time, the potential of a massive increase in, not just unemployment, but youth unemployment. That is why it is really important to give young people constructive things to do, to give them hope rather than the alternative, and I will continue to do what I can as the Mayor as long as I am the Mayor.

Jennette Arnold: Thank you, MrMayor, and now I am going to make a segue and I am going to say that Mayor’s Question Time (MQT) for me is an educational tool, so I do really want anything that is said to be as correct as possible. While I would agree with much of what my colleague Assembly Member Hall said earlier in terms of the total unacceptable nature of any abuse, particularly racial abuse, and I was at the meeting with her and shared with her that 45 years ago as a nurse, and I am sure most black professionals will have been there at some time or the other, have experienced racial abuse and that I would agree with her, we absolutely need to support officers. What I disagree with her about is the comment that she made and attributed to the Deputy Commissioner. He did not say that all the racial abuse that was hurled at black officers came from Black Lives Matter protestors. I have checked it out, he said that the officers received abuse from across the piece, right wing and Black Lives Matter activists, so this was not confined solely to Black Lives Matter protestors. It is important, this issue is so important, we do not need any more misinformation about it. Thank you.